3 cards a day...

Lee

There isn't an investor involved (since it's a service oriented business we don't really need one, luckily), but I think it's true that I myself am still holding back a little, not giving it my everything. Just realized this right now, I wasn't aware of it really.
Or perhaps a client? But I like your interpretation of seeing yourself as the King.
I have one question: are you using the "pips-as-trumps" method for all the pip cards or does it get "overridden" by visuals or intuition sometimes? In this example - did you connect the 10 to La Roue in any way?
Good question... If I had laid these cards out without seeing your interpretation first, I would probably have looked first to the corresponding trump and interpreted the card as a change in feelings or relationships due to changes in circumstance. That interpretation could still have fit in with your overall scenario -- the business life requiring a change in the social life. I'm going to start a separate thread on how I read pips.
Satori said:
The 10 of Cups was like a representation in miniature of the Holocaust to me for a moment.
Just wanted to say I think this is a great example of the limitless potential of interpretive possibilities with Marseille decks!
 

Lee

Here's a trio that I laid out for myself last night, and it took a great deal of thought before I could wrestle some sense out of it.

My question was related to my job situation which I also used in the reading exchange. Briefly, I'm dissatisfied with my position vis-a-vis my employers. I'm very helpful and obliging, but I feel they take advantage of that and use me for their own benefit, while rewarding other employees who are not as cooperative as I. I'm non-confrontational by nature, and thus reluctant to make a lot of noise complaining (although I did sit down with my boss a few months ago and politely made my feelings known, with positive results, but now I'm worried that the situation is backsliding).

Following le_charior's example, I'll just post the image and then come back tomorrow and post my interpretation, in case anyone else wants to give it a whirl before seeing my interpretation.
IMG_NEW.jpg
 

Satori

Wow Lee.

Okay, what I see is this.

The first thing that popped for me was the color blue. The bottom of the mandorla in the World card shows us the blue leaves, with the figure inside. I see this as you, making your self transparent to your boss...by opening up to the boss (the nudity) you may have sort of shown your soft underbelly to the wolves.

The next card, the IIII the blue is now above and below the central flower....you blossomed for a while. I love how the mandorla is now the bent staves, and I heard distinctly, "like bending over backwards", so that I felt like you were really giving it your all, really trying to grow in this company....but see all the little snipped buds, no growth can be possible here. The blue was like pools of water to me, but it felt swampy for some reason.

Then in the last card, Strength, no longer felt like strength, it felt like they were forcing you to be a certain way, that now that they knew your secrets they were going to exploit you for their own use, for their own reasons, because they can.

The blue makes its final journey to become the skirt of the boss, the apron or covering and peeking out of the bottom is the foot of the boss...she has you under foot, she has you by the throat. She has been created out of the blues in the other cards, and now she is fully fleshed out, in control, while you have become the lion, more malleable, less real.

I felt like there are opportunities for you outside your company, they show up in the four corners of the World card. They become the 4 snipped buds in the IIII of Swords...less compassionate, more unified. You don't fit in at this company, you move from being the free spirit you are now, to a snipped yet beautiful flower, and finally, to a beast they want to tame and control, the poor lion.

Don't let them do this to you Lee!!!!

The progressions from card to card are amazing. You move from a free spirit to a controlled beast, while the Boss lady becomes more real, and solid...the blue taking a new form and controlling you more and more.

Does this make any sense?

ETA:
I forgot to mention the yellow. The lion essence is already in the World card, but it is down in the corner, and it is almost like the meek part of you is there, but only one facet of your personality. As the cards progress the yellow moves up to the outside edges of the sword. I feel like though you struggle to remain in some kind of balance your efforts are futile. By the end of progression you have emerged as the lion, and the blue has become the boss who is trying to make you her creature.

It is so striking to look at the cards and see the 4 creatures become the buds.
You as the central figure seem to be losing a battle, you are almost dehumanizing. Changing from card to card though you try to retain some semblance of beauty and strength. The central card is so poignant. I almost hear you saying well I might be changing, they might be manipulating me, but at least I'm still worthy, I'm still beautiful in my own way.

By the time we get to La Force you have succumbed to the process further, but still you retain some kind of identity. I have to ask though, is it worth it?

Powerful throw. Every time I look at it I see a few more details...
 

le_charior

So much happening here, nice! i'll post my detailled thoughts on EVERYTHING tomorrow ;) (so much for concentrating on work...)

Can I post 3card draws here using it? Or would that be against the rules 'cos it's not an old tarot?

It's clearly a TdM inspired deck with unscenic pips, so I see no reason why you should't use it to post three cards here. Put the minors in for a little interpretation fun! ;)

Greetings from Berlin to you all!!!
 

Flaxen

Hello Lee,

This is my attempt at interpreting your cards. I decided to do this before reading the comments of anyone else. It will be interesting to see if there is overlap. :)

The first thing that jumped out at me was the card and word 'Force'. Here the woman looks resolutely determined to force that lion into submission. There is an element of indifference about it - she looks like she doesn't care one way or the other but knows that life is easier once the lion is controllable. I see this very clearly as your employers forcing you to behave in a way that makes life easier for them. It looks a bit like she is about to give the lion a dose of some nasty medicine - perhaps to help keep it docile. I wonder if you have been treated to this 'medicine' yourself in the form of soothing platitudes - words/actions aimed at keeping you sweet.

The 4 of swords speaks of restriction and being forced to fit. However, this is not a sustainable situation and sooner or later the sword will break. It also speaks of a struggle that has been going on for a long time and one you cannot seem to break away from. Do you feel trapped in your current job?

The World suggests to me the promise and optimism you had when you began your employment. It felt like you had the world at your feet and that anything was possible. It feels like the four figures around the edge were your future employers assessing you and seeing your potential. Unfortunately, they seem to have crushed the spirit that once shone so brightly for them. I don't think this was intended - it feels like something that just happened because you became another cog in the machine. They became indifferent to your fate once you had walked through the company doors.

I hope you manage to find a resolution to this situation soon.
 

Lee

Thanks Satori and Flaxen, those were both terrific readings! You are both obviously quite talented at this!
The first thing that popped for me was the color blue. The bottom of the mandorla in the World card shows us the blue leaves, with the figure inside. I see this as you, making your self transparent to your boss...by opening up to the boss (the nudity) you may have sort of shown your soft underbelly to the wolves.
This captures my feelings exactly. My employers depend on me, yet I am totally vulnerable to them... I'm an independent contractor so they can stop using me tomorrow if they want. I know I'm valuable to them, but they know I need lots of work. Of course I can stop working for them anytime as well. It's sort of an unhealthy codependence. What a soap opera... :rolleyes:
I love how the mandorla is now the bent staves, and I heard distinctly, "like bending over backwards" [....] but see all the little snipped buds, no growth can be possible here.
Excellent visualization!
Then in the last card, Strength, no longer felt like strength, it felt like they were forcing you to be a certain way, that now that they knew your secrets they were going to exploit you for their own use, for their own reasons, because they can.
I can see why you would say so, although in my particular situation I lean more towards Flaxen's interpretation, i.e. they're not necessarily vindictive, it's just kind of the nature of the business and human nature -- although of course that's still not a reason for me to keep exposing that soft underbelly.
I felt like there are opportunities for you outside your company, they show up in the four corners of the World card. They become the 4 snipped buds in the IIII of Swords...less compassionate, more unified. You don't fit in at this company, you move from being the free spirit you are now, to a snipped yet beautiful flower, and finally, to a beast they want to tame and control, the poor lion.[...] It is so striking to look at the cards and see the 4 creatures become the buds. You as the central figure seem to be losing a battle, you are almost dehumanizing. Changing from card to card though you try to retain some semblance of beauty and strength. The central card is so poignant. I almost hear you saying well I might be changing, they might be manipulating me, but at least I'm still worthy, I'm still beautiful in my own way.
I agree... your interpretation is remarkable, and I also think this particular card combination is also remarkable in itself. That's a really neat set of developmental processes that you've spotted. My hat's off to you!
The progressions from card to card are amazing. You move from a free spirit to a controlled beast, while the Boss lady becomes more real, and solid...the blue taking a new form and controlling you more and more.[...] Does this make any sense?
Yes, very much so! I particularly like how you worked color into the reading, that's something I need to work on in my own readings. Lots of food for thought.
The first thing that jumped out at me was the card and word 'Force'. Here the woman looks resolutely determined to force that lion into submission. There is an element of indifference about it - she looks like she doesn't care one way or the other but knows that life is easier once the lion is controllable. I see this very clearly as your employers forcing you to behave in a way that makes life easier for them. It looks a bit like she is about to give the lion a dose of some nasty medicine - perhaps to help keep it docile. I wonder if you have been treated to this 'medicine' yourself in the form of soothing platitudes - words/actions aimed at keeping you sweet.
Flaxen, you've hit the nail on the head. They are very nice to me and treat me very well... but I know that they're giving the best work (which brings the best compensation) to someone else.
The 4 of swords speaks of restriction and being forced to fit. However, this is not a sustainable situation and sooner or later the sword will break. It also speaks of a struggle that has been going on for a long time and one you cannot seem to break away from. Do you feel trapped in your current job?
I like my job, but the constant contact with the same employers, along with the constant paranoia on my part (a lot of it justified, but probably some of it imaginary on my part as well), is getting on my nerves.
The World suggests to me the promise and optimism you had when you began your employment.
Excellent interpretation! It's a straightforward interpretation but it actually hadn't occurred to me.
It feels like the four figures around the edge were your future employers assessing you and seeing your potential.
Interestingly, they are three brothers and their mother, totaling four. (I hope they're not reading this! :bugeyed: Fortunately none are interested in tarot.)
Unfortunately, they seem to have crushed the spirit that once shone so brightly for them. I don't think this was intended - it feels like something that just happened because you became another cog in the machine. They became indifferent to your fate once you had walked through the company doors.
As mentioned earlier, I think this hits the mark. They're not bad people, but our respective positions necessarily place us somewhat at odds vis-a-vis our conflicting interests. Flaxen, you have some eerily effective "hits" here!

Here was what I had come up with for these cards before I posted them:

I had described myself as nonconfrontational, and that's the key to how I see the World card in this reading. I like for everything to be balanced, without my having to get my hands dirty by interacting with people to make it so. I usually go out of my way to be cooperative and cordial with everyone when it comes to my work, and to give them the best effort I can, and I expect them to treat me well in return. But as is shown on the card, by isolating myself, i.e. refusing to confront people directly to ask/insist on what I want, I'm cutting myself off from the possibility of having any control over the situation. The card shows a balanced situation, but the central figure is cut off from the other four and doesn't really have any power to affect them.

In the next card, the trump card suggested by the 4 would be the Emperor, and so in this case I interpreted the card as forceful or authoritative words, presumably the words I should be speaking to my employers. The flower might represent the harmonious relationships which I am reluctant to jeopardize. By speaking out, I risk losing that harmony (symbolized by the cut stem). However, that might be a sacrifice I need to be willing to make. Similar to how Satori saw the card, I too noticed the design resemblance to the previous card. It's like a vicious parody of the World, except with sharp blades instead of organic leaves surrounding the precious center. The card seems to say that the harmonious relations I find so precious are not actually worth the effort to save.

Then we come to Strength. The thing that really struck me about this card is that the central figure from the World, who had kept a wall between herself and the creatures around her, is now physically interacting with one of those creatures. She has stepped out from her confining cage and is taking matters, literally, into her own hands. So unlike Flaxen's and Satori's interpretation, I saw myself as the central figure, and the situation or my bosses as the lion. This card shows an idealistic vision of me "handling" the situation (in two senses of the word!). Following on from Satori's observation of the nude World dancer showing vulnerability, the Strength lion-tamer is now clothed and self-protected.

Overall I would say my interpretation boils down to a message that (as both Flaxen and Satori suggested) the situation is untenable, and I must speak out and accept the consequences whatever they are.

Interestingly, although we each interpreted the cards in some cases very differently, the same general message emerged for each of us.

This was a lot of fun. Much appreciated. :)
 

Satori

Lee I just pulled out the Noblet to look at the cards you pulled, to see the progressions, and the effect is not so pronounced as with the deck you used.

I was looking at the rhymes and there are so many little things that we could have read, and based on your interpretations and the feedback you left, I was very impressed by what you noted, that though we came the to our conclusions via different reading styles and from taking different bits of info and putting them together, we all sort of came out at a similar place.

I really enjoyed doing this. I'm searching for my Hadar to look at the progressions of these three cards in that deck....I'm interested now to see how the images look. What made you choose this deck, and sorry to say I don't recognize it...what deck is it?
 

le_charior

These are my comments on Satori's take on my last three cards - sorry to interrupt the discussion of Lee's cards (that I will continue on the post after this one :))

Satori,

that was a great and truly fascinating take on the cards! Thanks a lot!

Hi! Popping in to say that I think....You are the man on the end, and you are in Berlin, right? I was thinking that you are so amazed by the explosion happening in the center of the spread, like a show of some sort, some kind of dazzling and energetic display. And even more so after the ordered and repetitious pattern of the first card, the 10 of Cups.

The middle cards carries an almost frenetic energy, perhaps even a little hysterical. You however are pretty relaxed and laid back, content to watch the show.

I'm wondering if some kind of blow out might happen with some of your coworkers, perhaps even an upset in the company, that you are sort of outside of.
So far the frenetic energy hystery you saw mostly happened in my social life and nightlife ;) but I am trying to take it easy - didn't go out yesterday! Work only really starts today, so I'll see how that goes (but since it's only 3 of us at work, it's hard to stay outside of anything;))
The other thing that struck me, and this is perhaps another interpretation, is that you seem to find Berlin interesting from either the historical or architectural perspective. There seems to be something a little bit...fascinating about it all.

The 10 of Cups was like a representation in miniature of the Holocaust to me for a moment. That there was love for country and nationalistic pride, causing people to "fall in line" with a group type consciousness hence all the cups lined up...but the leader fell, the top cup. The explosion is the center card, the things that went so wrong with the regime, and at the end, you there thinking about the historical significance, mesmerized by it all. Also, you hold the pentacle, a sign that you don't identify with the Nazis, but that you were fascinated by their leader (you looking at that fallen cup).

I know that for me, were I to visit Berlin, I would want to see as much of the historical stuff as I could. And it would be staggering to me to be there and immerse myself in the museums and such.
If it were my first time in Berlin I think this would all be very much on spot - I have this fascination with the history of the city and in Berlin it is more visible than in lots of other cities (I think) - there are a lot of places and monuments reminding us of the Nazi regime and the cold war etc. (the Holocaust Memorial, the Reichstags building with its glass dome etc). So the history is extremely present in the city, but since I lived in Belrin for several years it is not as present or dominant for me - I've seen it all already.

The 10 cups! I would have never had this idea, but it makes total sense. The fallen leader cup... the emotional, irrational side of the smaller, lined up cups. Truly beautiful interpretation of this card, I think it makes very much sense and is not too out there - in the context how you saw the other cards and how you described it I think you had a very valid and fascinating association here. I can only second Lee that this is a great exemple of the richness of the TdM!

Just a couple of takes. Maybe too out there.....

Another thought...could it be if we look at it not from the historical perspective, that the leader of the company will fall, causing some kind of blow out....but it isn't maybe your company, but a company you are dealing with....and the top leader creates some kind of mad frenzy that you sit back in disbelief watching.

LOL. There you go.
Mhm. Since we are only three I think it must be someone else.. We have a few problem clients that we expected to go under for some time already, so far it didn't happen, but that could hint to that!

Ok, I'm gonna say it one last time, Satori: WOW! :)
 

le_charior

Lee,

thanks for posting these three!

I haven't read any of the takes on the cards yet, but wanted to give my idea on them first. So maybe this repeats what has been already said - I'll discover it when I read the other posts.
Here's a trio that I laid out for myself last night, and it took a great deal of thought before I could wrestle some sense out of it.

My question was related to my job situation which I also used in the reading exchange. Briefly, I'm dissatisfied with my position vis-a-vis my employers. I'm very helpful and obliging, but I feel they take advantage of that and use me for their own benefit, while rewarding other employees who are not as cooperative as I. I'm non-confrontational by nature, and thus reluctant to make a lot of noise complaining (although I did sit down with my boss a few months ago and politely made my feelings known, with positive results, but now I'm worried that the situation is backsliding).

Following le_charior's example, I'll just post the image and then come back tomorrow and post my interpretation, in case anyone else wants to give it a whirl before seeing my interpretation.
IMG_NEW.jpg
The World: In your head things are clear. You have balance, you know how you want your work to be, you don't have any interior struggles or uncertainties. But this is all in the clouds, in your head, independent of physical reality. Heavenly Jerusalem.

4 Swords: You need to break things down into your daily work reality and routine. The shape of the cards very much echos The World - the mandorla shape, the figure in the middle became a flower, the four beasts in the corners have turned into these blossoms or fruit or whatever they are. From Heaven to Earth, that's where the flowers are coming from, the soil. From your theoretical idea how you see yourself and your work and the world all in harmony you have to apply it into your daily routine. Stop thinking about the castle in the sky and how beautiful it is and start building it, stone by stone, on Earth. Sweet and dirt and everything unpleasant included - but necessary to really create something.

Force: She tells you how to achieve that. With force, but also a quiet serenity. No need for a confrontation or a big drama, but you have to stand your ground against your colleagues or your bosses and defend your position in a friendly, polite but very firm and self assured way - and not only once, but in everyday life. Kindly and politely refuse to do all the annoying work, pointing out that you did your share already and now it's time for your colleague to do their part. Use your experience to get yourself into good, important projects and at the same time make clear that you are reliable, but also expext fairness and balance. Force the mouth of the beast open and make it swallow what you have to say, but do it with a smile and without getting excited or angry.

I haven't read your pips-as-trumps post yet - but the 4 hints at the Emperor who seconds Force in this, I think.

Excited to see what you other people found in the cards now!
 

le_charior

Oh it is fascinating how all four of us have seen different things in these cards, and sometimes the same (the animals turning into the flower buds) - but interpreted them in a different way.

I was more positive than most of you (as usual :) - well, what can I say, I'm just a little sunshine boy :)) But for me you were clearly Force, not the Lion. Or more the principle of Force as an advise, a guidance for you.

Satori: The colors, how the blue is taking over from one card to the next... that was so cool! I tend not to pay too much attention to colors... (The deck is the Grimaud/Marteau, btw). I saw the flowers more like emerging from the soil, not cut, but I can totally see what you pointed out in your take.

Flaxen: I especially love how you see The World - with the four employers lurking in the corner, eyeing Lee enviously :) I could very much see that too but it would have never occured to me :)

Lee: I love how you have seen the central figure from the World breaking the boundary and attacking the Lion in Force, amazing observation! And fascinating that you interpert the similiarities of the 4 swords to the world as a parody - I liked that (even if I am hoping for you it will get better at work and not continue to feel like that!)

That was a very fascinating experience, the different takes on these three cards - and I agree with Satori, very powerful cards and a lot to see.

(I am too busy here right now to post a new one, once we are done with Lee's 3 - so feel free anybody else please!)