Was Aleister Crowley really as bad as depicted?

[Pet Jeffery]

deleted

 

[Laura Borealis]

Yes. Which is why we (as a society) can't handle Crowley. Which is hard on him, as he had an awful lot going for him - and the much touted drug use is DAMNED unfair - the heroin, in particular, was PRESCRIBED for him for asthma, and he stopped taking it for years, until his asthma was so bad he could hardly breathe - but it is held up as shock horror. You don't hear people saying that stuff about Queen Victoria - who was a regular laudanum user...

Wasn't some of the drug use for ritual purposes as well?

And a lot of what people say about him tied to his use of words - Great Beast, and the rest - he used words differently from the rest of us. He was anti-Satanism (according to Perdurabo) - but he is still pilloried as a Satanist... Which just shows how little the people who want to blacken him actually know about what they say. If you are going to try and blacken someone's name, at least get your facts right.

Many people define Satanism as basically anything that is not Christian, though. These people may not even be aware of LaVey style Satanism, and will just lump all magical practices together as Satanic. Demon-summoning, use of pentacles, etc. looks like Satanism to the average outsider. I don't agree with them, but I can understand somewhat their point of view. If you believe in one true God, and other people serve (or appear to be serving) other gods, then yes, that worship is satanic in your eyes.

 

[Always Wondering]

Since Frieda Harris was 60 when she met Crowley, it may be unsurprising if he didn't exploit her for "sex magic", as he did some younger women.

One may wonder what it was about Frieda Harris that made her a suitable artist for Crowley's tarot project. Am I overly-cynical if I link this with Crowley's bankruptcy of a couple of years earlier? My feeling is that, in 1937, Crowley's finances remained in a very delicate condition. I doubt whether his cash reserves would have run to paying an artist to produce 78 paintings. He needed someone who would paint the cards without immediate (or even longer term?) financial return. Frieda Harris, as a wealthy socialite who could paint, was ideal. It is quite possible to read the Crowley/Harris relationship and correspondence as cynical manipulation on Crowley's part.

I am not saying that Frieda Harris was an inferior artist, just that she may have accepted flattery, and initiation into Crowley's magical orders, in lieu of more conventional payment.

I don't know how you could read the correspondence and think these things. I suspect you didn't read them. Here are just a few quotes that give me good idea of the strength of her will.

I am, also, sorry that I have to write plainly to you, because I enjoy our friendship & your instruction very much, but it is entirely spoilt by your attempts to use me as your bank & financial adviser.

Have you seen that all the Sephiroths in the Index are spelled wrong, at least nearly all--an awful bother if they get printed like that. Also I don't feel you have made it clear about Tzaddi--The Emperor. Can't you have a diagram?

Why don't you like my egg question. Is it because you don't know the answer? I think it is interesting because the living egg must be charged with, let us call it, electric current to make it move. To me it is a magical feat. I thought it would be to you. There is no trick and it is the country people's method of testing eggs here.

I am trying to keep out too because I am bored by occult people, loathe commercialism, do not want fame or notoriety, do not want money, but yearn, long, desire for solitude. Any financial success will be yours. I have had my reward in the work.

I am sorry I cannot allow my pictures to be reproduced as a pack of cards unless I know who the person is who is putting down the money, the exact details of your plan and how you propose to raise so large a sum and am satisfied that the securities are real business proposition and the scheme is a sound one.

I could go on and on but don't have time. To protray Lady Frieda Harris as maleable and easily manipulated is such a diservice to her memory and contribution to the deck.

AW

 

[Zezina]

Since Frieda Harris was 60 when she met Crowley, it may be unsurprising if he didn't exploit her for "sex magic", as he did some younger women.

One may wonder what it was about Frieda Harris that made her a suitable artist for Crowley's tarot project. Am I overly-cynical if I link this with Crowley's bankruptcy of a couple of years earlier? My feeling is that, in 1937, Crowley's finances remained in a very delicate condition. I doubt whether his cash reserves would have run to paying an artist to produce 78 paintings. He needed someone who would paint the cards without immediate (or even longer term?) financial return. Frieda Harris, as a wealthy socialite who could paint, was ideal. It is quite possible to read the Crowley/Harris relationship and correspondence as cynical manipulation on Crowley's part.

I am not saying that Frieda Harris was an inferior artist, just that she may have accepted flattery, and initiation into Crowley's magical orders, in lieu of more conventional payment.

Frieda didn't need any sort of acceptance. She was, among other things a free-thinker and suffragette, also a close friend of Emily Pankhurst - her grand-daughter has shown me a handsome gift Frieda received from Emily.

Crowley did not choose Frieda. He sought an artist to design Tarot cards, as Pamela Coleman Smith has done for Arthur Waite 30 years before, and Bax introduced him to Frieda after other artists didn't show.

I have the strong impression, reading through all the material relating to their early meeting, that once Frieda had persuaded Crowley not to design a traditional Tarot deck, but to incorporate all his theories and learning into his deck, that she was the one who drove this project, at least as much as he did and possibly more. She totally dedicated five years of her life to creating this deck.

She was driven as an artist to see this project through to completion.

Once the deck was completed Frieda pushed very hard to get the paintings exhibited and tried to get the deck itself published, by requesting sponsorship for that, while ensuring that Crowley remained completely out of sight so that his reputation would not detract from the success of their project.

There is no doubt Frieda was a very sophisticated and confident woman, and a highly trained and matured artist, who spent her time amongst other London artists, and was well up with the play at the time. She was also smart enough to learn the very complex system of Projective Synthetic Geometry, and to seek expert help in that system throughout her work on these cards.

Did you notice in their correspondence that Crowley signed himself 'Fraternally' at the end of some letters to Frieda? Hardly a sign of sexual exploitation.

*Z*

 

[Aeon418]

Since Frieda Harris was 60 when she met Crowley, it may be unsurprising if he didn't exploit her for "sex magic", as he did some younger women.

There are no records of "workings" between Harris and Crowley, and I seriously doubt that any took place. But it's safe to assume that Crowley did instruct her in the theoretical aspects of sex magick. Some of the Thoth cards are so explicit it's hard to imagine how Harris could have been ignorant of it. It probably also tells you a little about Harris herself. Can you imagine a sexually repressed prude producing such provocative and daring works of art?

(Was it Lon DuQuette who said the Thoth deck is currently banned in the US prison system because it is considered to be pornographic? )

By the way who were these exploited younger women?

 

[gregory]

(Was it Lon DuQuette who said the Thoth deck is currently banned in the US prison system because it is considered to be pornographic? )

I'll be back later... (I had it out for something else !)

 

[Aeon418]

I'll be back later... (I had it out for something else !)

It's ok, gregory, I've found it. It's in the Lust chapter on pages 126-127.

While very tame by modern standards, the naked image of the Babylon, the Scarlet Woman, elevating the Holy Grail and straddling a fantastic and terrible seven-headed Beast is still too daring for many twenty-first-century sensitivities. In state and federal prisons throughout the United States, the Thoth Tarot (because of the Lust card) is considered pornographic contraband and it's possession by inmates is forbidden. Even seasoned taroists who should know better, point to the Lust card as another example of Crowley polluting the tarot with his dirty mind.

And yet way back in conservative 1940's England Harris was more than happy to display the Lust painting in the exhibitions she organised and was perfectly comfortable explaining the 'feel' of the card to children who came to view the paintings. I think that in itself tells you a little bit about Harris.

Personally I would have liked to have heard her explanation of the Devil painting. I know that the catalogue says it's the Tree of Life in the background, and I understand the reason behind that reference, but I wonder how many non-Qabalist members of the public thought it was nothing more than a picture of a "cock & balls".

 

[gregory]

Also in that book is an extract from a letter from Frieda to a friend saying how very much she missed Crowley after he died.... and how much he had taught her and how generously. (I got sidetracked and didn't get as far as Lust !)

 

[Laura Borealis]

Since Frieda Harris was 60 when she met Crowley, it may be unsurprising if he didn't exploit her for "sex magic", as he did some younger women.

Because that would be unthinkable for a woman her age -- while totally accepted for a man, of course.

As a woman nearing 50, I scoff at you. Scoff!

 

[Aeon418]

I think Harris was able to see past Crowley's sometimes difficult personality. Even though their relationship became strained at times it still didn't stop her appreciating what Crowley had to offer. It's a shame more people can't take a leaf out of her book.