Ruler of the ascendant

frac_ture

Thanks for letting me climb aboard your discussion! You're right, though: maybe a new thread would be in order -- I don't want to divert focus here from the main thread topic. I might try to start one myself tomorrow -- too tired here at the stroke of midnight where I am to make much sense right now...
 

Minderwiz

Thanks for the info M! Here are the degrees of the planets:

Sun 9°05' Taurus
Mercury 11°14' Taurus
Venus 14°50' Taurus
Mars 3°09' Taurus

I had a reading recently that caused me to pause and reflect on Mars' activity in my life. I know that Mars takes two years to transit through the signs, and noticed a pattern in my life that repeats itself every two years. Seems I uproot myself and move or make huge strides and changes in my life bi-annually (interesting too, that it's always in the Spring). Would that be evidence to Mars being ruler, or is that Mars just doing it's *thing*?

What would I be looking for if Venus came out on top?

Yes that is interesting!! The two year cycle seems to be significant Astrologically - have you checked for how close it is to your Mars return or to your natal Ascendant degree?

A fair number of Astrologers that I have read would take all these planets to be conjunct , as long as there isn't an out of orb pair in the middle. Mars is well within a reasonable orb for the Sun and Mercury, and Venus also (but on the other side).

From a Hellenistic point of view all these planets fall into what they termed 'assembly', that is a moderate conjunction and none of them qualify for 'adherence' which is a strong conjunction (less than three degrees). The separation of Mars and Venus keeps them at no more than moderate relative to each other.

You are a night birth, Venus and Mars are the benefic and malefic of sect - that is despite Mars being by nature a difficult planet, it is not going to be associated with major difficulties and indeed may well be constructive. Venus will be more likely to be associated with good events than Jupiter. Again it would be interesting to see how much the biennial changes match your Venus return, to see how closely these two planets work together - especially if you see these changes as beneficial.

Mars is closer to your Ascendant (though as I don't know the degree of that, I still can't give a decision on which is tops. If your Ascendant means that Venus is very near the second house cusp, I'd take Mars as the more likely.

I'll go further if you PM or post your natal details, as there are a few tests I can carry out on the chart as a whole.

I hope it's not rude of me to piggyback in on MaineGirl117's question, but it provides the perfect opportunity for me to ask a question that I've been grappling with as I try to make the trek from "beginning astrologer" to "intermediate" level... Here it is:

As she's detailed for us, she has a stellium in Taurus. The Sun and Mercury lie in the middle of the cluster, and then Venus and Mars are located to either side of them. The latter two planets are each conjunct the inner two (the Sun and Mercury), but are nearly 12 degrees apart from each other, and therefore technically not conjunct each other. My question, though, is whether they would be attributed conjunct status by virtue of having those other two bodies between them to which they are both conjunct? Does this all count as a true stellium even though every planet involved isn't conjunct every other planet involved if we use a strict ten-degree orb (assuming that's the proper orb to be using...?)? And should her chart be interpreted such that Venus and Mars are deemed sort of "effectively conjunct?" I ask because I have something similar happening in my own chart and in the charts of a few other people I'm trying to interpret. Thank you for any feedback -- sorry for any hijacking here!

You're not highjacking - it's a reasonable question. As I said in response to MaineGirl117, I'd take these four planets to be in conjunction using the range of 15 degrees, used by Hellenisitic Astrologers, though none of them are closer enough for a tight conjunction on their definition.

A lot of modern Astrologers would take this as being a multiple conjunction (stellium) too, though I guess you will find Astrologers (both modern and traditional) who would treat Venus and Mars as being out of orb. Most traditional Astrologers seem to be more concerned with planets in the first (or whatever relevant house) rather than how close they are for most topical readings or for forecasts, though proximity matters when it comes to assessing strength, when a benefic or a malefic are involved - benefics (Venus and Jupiter) add to strength when in close conjunction or aspect, malefics (Saturn and Mars) reduce strength in the same circumstances.

By all means launch a new thread on this, as there may well be others who want to contribute but are not aware of the theme. It would also allow comeback questions and this thread would not meander off topic.
 

MaineGirl117

Minderwiz said:
You are a night birth, Venus and Mars are the benefic and malefic of sect - that is despite Mars being by nature a difficult planet, it is not going to be associated with major difficulties and indeed may well be constructive. Venus will be more likely to be associated with good events than Jupiter. Again it would be interesting to see how much the biennial changes match your Venus return, to see how closely these two planets work together - especially if you see these changes as beneficial.

I have PM'd my birth details to you :) This seems interesting. Mars and Venus have been traveling closely together since they joined up in Pisces (I think) and over the past 4 months there have been steady positive results across... well I would say all areas of my life, but specifically self-esteem, motivation, and finances. Venus and Jupiter are set to be in positive alignment towards the end of the month (think they'll be conjunct?). Last year around this time these two planets sent me on a work related trip that proved not only interesting but highly sociable :) This year I'm hoping it'll do the same by gifting me a promotion!!

When Mars and Venus went conjunct to the Sun in Aries back in March I caught my second wind so to speak in improving my resume, personal appearance and putting my foot down in personal relationships, so it'll be interesting to see your comments in regards to my planetary placement and rulership.

Thank you again for taking a look!
 

frac_ture

Thank you, Minderwiz. I did end up starting a new thread here. I appreciate your help with all this, and thanks again, MaineGirl117, for letting me jump in on your own questions!
 

Minderwiz

I have PM'd my birth details to you :) This seems interesting. Mars and Venus have been traveling closely together since they joined up in Pisces (I think) and over the past 4 months there have been steady positive results across... well I would say all areas of my life, but specifically self-esteem, motivation, and finances. Venus and Jupiter are set to be in positive alignment towards the end of the month (think they'll be conjunct?). Last year around this time these two planets sent me on a work related trip that proved not only interesting but highly sociable :) This year I'm hoping it'll do the same by gifting me a promotion!!

When Mars and Venus went conjunct to the Sun in Aries back in March I caught my second wind so to speak in improving my resume, personal appearance and putting my foot down in personal relationships, so it'll be interesting to see your comments in regards to my planetary placement and rulership.

Thank you again for taking a look!

Well I started off with some recognised traditional tests for the 'ruler of the chart' and here is what I got for your chart.

Ibn Ezra - Almuten of the Chart (from Solar Fire) Scores : Mars 32, Venus 31 Mercury 28

Medieval (Delphic Oracle) Mars 34, Venus 34, Mercury 28

Morinus (Program default) Mars 31 Venus 28 Mercury 28

Lilly (approx) Mars 27 Venus 34 Mercury 28

The main reason for Lilly's reversal of the order is that the others included scores for being Lord of the Day and Lord of the Hour (You were born on a Tuesday, the day of Mars, at the hour of the Sun)

If we don't count a score for ruling the day, then Venus seems to be your strongest planet with Mercury just shading second from Mars. If you do take the day into account then Mars just shades the strongest planet.

I've not included the outers here and I might give them a cursory examination in the next post but it looks to me as though Venus is more likely to be the ruling planet. Especially as Mars is actually some distance from the Ascendant and in the sign of it's Detriment.

I've not dealt with your two year cycle but again I'll have a look at that and see what the situation has been like over the last 10 years or so.
 

Minderwiz

I got sidetracked into your biennial cycle :)

Tell me if the following years (and months) fit in with it:

2000 - around the end of March
2002 - around the beginning of March
2004 - February
2005 - Early August
2007 - June/July
2009 - Early June
2011 - Mid May
2013 - End of April


Those are the dates of your last 8 Mars Returns. The actual effect, if any, might be in the lead up to the return, or it might be in the weeks following it, so don't assume that the effect has to happen at the exact time of the return.

However if your events are offset by a year then it looks like it is the intervening years that are most likely and that could be the Mars opposition to it's natal position.
 

MaineGirl117

I got sidetracked into your biennial cycle :)

Tell me if the following years (and months) fit in with it:

2000 - around the end of March
2002 - around the beginning of March
2004 - February

**These three were college years. I changed schools three times. March 2002 I think* is when I declared a double Major

2005 - Early August **graduated college in May. Met my future husband in June. By August we had moved in together

2007 - June/July ** Up and quit a job without notice. Just couldn't take it anymore, but the way it came about was totally uncharacteristic of my style. Felt the need to burn the bridge.

2009 - Early June **Was seriously contemplating divorce. Moved out/separated by beginning of August

2011 - Mid May **March took a job with the government, uprooted myself and moved 1000 miles away from home and family to start my life over again

2013 - End of April ** Time of my birthday. Yes, I did have a serious epiphany shortly following the end of April about where to take my career.

Those are the dates of your last 8 Mars Returns. The actual effect, if any, might be in the lead up to the return, or it might be in the weeks following it, so don't assume that the effect has to happen at the exact time of the return.

However if your events are offset by a year then it looks like it is the intervening years that are most likely and that could be the Mars opposition to it's natal position.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! If Venus rules my chart then it'll be a bit easier to see her effects on a month by month basis the way she moves. I'll keep an eye out as to what her influence will be :)

Appreciate your time! :thumbsup:
MG
 

Minderwiz

I got sidetracked into your biennial cycle :)


2009 - Early June **Was seriously contemplating divorce. Moved out/separated by beginning of August

MG

Just as a matter of interest what was happening from around early March that year? Venus stationed Retrograde on the 6th March, Just 2 degrees short of your Ascendant and then was Retrograde through to the 17 April when it stationed direct at 29 degrees Pisces, where it was caught up by Mars and there was a conjunction on 21 March. Pisces is the sign of Venus exaltation but that did not last long and both planets moved into Aries. Mars intially was the faster, but by 21 June there was a second conjunction as Venus caught up and then overtook Mars.

That particular period seems to have a strong interplay between these two planets, both of them coming up to their returns and indeed that second conjunction was at 15 degrees 40, less than a degree after the Venus return and still conjunct to natal Venus.

If that period makes sense to you, then you might well start looking at the interplay between those two every two years.
 

MaineGirl117

Just as a matter of interest what was happening from around early March that year? Venus stationed Retrograde on the 6th March, Just 2 degrees short of your Ascendant and then was Retrograde through to the 17 April when it stationed direct at 29 degrees Pisces, where it was caught up by Mars and there was a conjunction on 21 March. Pisces is the sign of Venus exaltation but that did not last long and both planets moved into Aries. Mars intially was the faster, but by 21 June there was a second conjunction as Venus caught up and then overtook Mars.

That particular period seems to have a strong interplay between these two planets, both of them coming up to their returns and indeed that second conjunction was at 15 degrees 40, less than a degree after the Venus return and still conjunct to natal Venus.

If that period makes sense to you, then you might well start looking at the interplay between those two every two years.

Interesting. Early March is his Birthday. On St. Patrick's day that month we booked a two week trip to Hawaii to visit my brother, left the 1st of April. That was the firs time that a family member got long term exposure to what he was really like. He's a serious alcoholic. I felt safe around my brother and my ex couldn't go to extremes, at least in his behavior towards me, because of this. I got fed up with how things were knowing that things, at least for me, could be so much better. My health was suffering from the stress of it all. I can remember going to the top of a dormant volcano on Maui to watch the sunset. Magical moment there. Probably embedded in that experience was an important mental turning point in my decision to leave, though it remained unacknowledged until later that year.
 

Ronia

I must admit that in difference from my Saturn return years ago, which was a glorious time, Saturn over and close to my Sun is something i can hardly bear anymore. he really squeezed my juices out. :( Nothing, nothing, nothing works. No matter what i try, no matter how hard, it's just zero. Blocks, walls everywhere. :( I don't understand why since his return was so good for me... It's the same planet, the same Asc ruler, and no, it didn't start when he turned retrograde now, it's been like that since he entered Scorpio last year, just the pressure grows and grows as he keeps going back and forth over my Sun. It's hopeless.