Horary Readings Round 7 - Questions

[Minderwiz]

I'm not having a good time

I've been ill for the last week, but I'm beginning to recover. Normal Service will be resumed in a few days.

 

[NamasteIndia]

take care

even i have been sick

 

[Ronia]

Get better soon, Minderwiz!

When you feel like it, I just have a learning question: chart cast on August 26 at 10:07 a.m in Toronto, question is about possible romantic partner/development in one year. In my opinion the answer is NO: Venus will square Mars (not encouraging on its own) but first she will square Saturn who rules 4 and 5 (she's minutes away from the exact aspect, it's partile I guess but still prevents the square with Mars, may be family matters are in the way to a romantic development). In any case, I don't see the thing happening. The thing here is do I consider the partile aspect as NOW as opposed to the upcoming aspect as THEN? The aspect is not exact yet, so is it NOW or THEN? If it si NOW, then if rightly points out that I'm currently looking for another apartment (4th house) and having issues with it. Should I consider this partile square as indicating more struggles to come in this area or is it already here and will be going away? Not sure about the partile - if it's the NOW or is it prohibiting the relationsup matter in the future or both? Thank you.

P.S. The Moon faces the same fate in this chart, so no difference.

 

[Minderwiz]

Thanks Ronia. I'll have a look at chart but first I want to respond to Ethereal, who I have now kept waiting for nearly a fortnight. As it's a crucial question for her, I wanted to be 100% before I attempted an answer. And then I'll get back to you and Namaste India.

 

[Ronia]

Thanks Ronia. I'll have a look at chart but first I want to respond to Ethereal, who I have now kept waiting for nearly a fortnight. As it's a crucial question for her, I wanted to be 100% before I attempted an answer. And then I'll get back to you and Namaste India.

Of course, mine is just a learning question. Oh, and when you take a look, am I wrong or do I have collection of light here? Saturn collected from Mars and now Venus is receiving it from Saturn. Saturn wasn't aspected by another meanwhile, was he? (Mercury?) I mean, I've rarely seen collection of light in horary by a slower planet and I';m eager to know if that is indeed the case here, it will give me a whole new direction to study!

Ok, this is becoming really fascinating to me as I'm so excited I may have a colllection of light which is something I've so rarely seen! According to Morinus, Mercury sextiled Saturn on August 25 at 1:20:42 pm. Mars conjunct Saturn on August 25 but at 9:11:09 pm which means Mars's aspect was AFTER Mercury's aspect and next Venus squared Saturn. Do I really have collection of light (Saturn collects from Mars and gives to Venus)? If yes, I'll look at Saturn's role more closely. (I know a square is still a square, just excited about the collection!)

If, indeed, I am dealing with collection of light what do I make of the dignities? saturn collected from Mars in Mars's domicile, I assume Saturn had no objection nor did Mars. However, Saturn is only in the term of Venus (me), in her detriment (Venus is in her own term in Leo). Does it mean Venus (me) will not be the match for Mars or the other way around? I'm confused with the receiving side here.

 

[LittleOne]

Hey Minderwiz,

I just saw above you've been feeling unwell, I hope you have perked up and are feeling better. I've been smacked with my third flu of the year - I've never been so sick as I have this year!

May I take another seat? I have been taking steps to let go of an ex but have been told they will still be a part of my life for a few years yet. What does horary astrology have to say about this? Is a year too long, or perhaps six months as a timeframe? What sort of role will he play in my life, or the nature of our interactions... over the next six months/year?

 

[Minderwiz]

Get better soon, Minderwiz!

When you feel like it, I just have a learning question: chart cast on August 26 at 10:07 a.m in Toronto, question is about possible romantic partner/development in one year. In my opinion the answer is NO: Venus will square Mars (not encouraging on its own) but first she will square Saturn who rules 4 and 5 (she's minutes away from the exact aspect, it's partile I guess but still prevents the square with Mars, may be family matters are in the way to a romantic development). In any case, I don't see the thing happening. The thing here is do I consider the partile aspect as NOW as opposed to the upcoming aspect as THEN? The aspect is not exact yet, so is it NOW or THEN? If it si NOW, then if rightly points out that I'm currently looking for another apartment (4th house) and having issues with it. Should I consider this partile square as indicating more struggles to come in this area or is it already here and will be going away? Not sure about the partile - if it's the NOW or is it prohibiting the relationsup matter in the future or both? Thank you.

P.S. The Moon faces the same fate in this chart, so no difference.

Hi Ronia,

Perfection, according to Lilly will occur ....when the principle significators, (Venus and Mars in this case) apply by sextile or trine aspects out of good houses and places where they are essentially well dignified and meet with no malevolent aspect to intervene ere they come to be in perfect sextile or trine; I mean to the partile sextile or trine)

He goes on to say Things are also produced to perfection when the significators apply by square aspect provided each have planetary dignity in the degrees wherein they are and apply out of proper and good houses. otherwise not.

Now this answers the question in part, The aspect only needs to be partile not exact to the minute, for perfection. As far as I'm aware Lilly doesn't give any examples where minutes or seconds make the difference.

However that doesn't quite clear things up. Venus has currently perfected an aspect to Saturn - so that aspect indicates 'Now' but the conditions 'Now' can affect what happens in the future, so we can't ignore it entirely,

Lilly seems to demand the same conditions for square as he does for sextile and trine in these statements, which I don't think he meant to do, both seem to require good essential dignity and good placement. In this chart Venus is angular (good) though out of sign (not so good) and has no essential dignity (not good)

Mars is in the second (not a good place) but has essential dignity by sign (good). So would we allow the square, even if Saturn were not there. Personally, I don't think Lilly would predict perfection from this square, the essential weakness of Venus and the lack of a good house for Mars would lead him to err on the side of a 'No' answer. It would certainly lead me to err on that side, or at least to say that you will be very lucky if this works out.

The Saturn aspect is more a statement that the conditions now are not right for this question. Current circumstances will prevent it happening. If it were a trine to Jupiter instead, then I'd be tempted to say that the good luck will come.

The Moon's sextile is the weakest aspect, and Saturn would definitely prohibit any perfection via the Moon. Sorry

 

[Ronia]

Hi Minderwiz, thanks, I know the suqare there won't produce anything but my excitement was about the collection of light - do I have it in this chart or not? I've rarely seen collection of light and I'm really eager to explore it! Saturn collects the light of Mars and Venus, doesn't he?

 

[Minderwiz]

Hi Minderwiz, thanks, I know the suqare there won't produce anything but my excitement was about the collection of light - do I have it in this chart or not? I've rarely seen collection of light and I'm really eager to explore it! Saturn collects the light of Mars and Venus, doesn't he?

You might have LOL but I don't really think so after some research.

Lilly says ....Matters are also brought to perfection when, as the two principal significators do not behold one another but both casts their several aspects to a more weighty planet than themselves and they both receive him in some of their essential dignities; then shall that planet....bring things demanded to perfection.

There are two issues: Firstly do Venus and Mars 'behold' each other. Lilly's definition requires that the do not.

Secondly, is Saturn in dignities of both Venus and Mars.

'Beholding' is simply forming a major aspect and Venus is applying to Mars by square, so to my mind this fails to meet Lilly's requirement.

Also Lilly used Ptolemaic triplicity and terms rulerships, so Saturn is not in any dignity of Venus.

So on a strict reading of Lilly, the answer is 'No'

However, I don't use Ptolemaic triplcity and terms rulers, I use the 'authentic' Egyptian ones and that would put Saturn in the triplicity of Venus (ruling the Water triplicity in a day chart).

So we're back to the issue of beholding. Have we got an example of prohibition or a collection of light? Dariot, who Lilly drew on quite a bit is more explicity and his operative phrase is ...when two planets do not beholde each other with any aspect, yet both of them do behold some other planet... and to me this rules out the applying square between Venus and Mars.

Abu Ma'shar also requires no aspect or conjunction between the two significators.

Dariot actually adds a rider. He requires both planets to be in angular or succedent houses for the collection of light to be profitable - that is a good outcome. In this case, Mars is in a succeedent house and Venus is either angular or succeedent depending on the house system used. So it would fit that condition.

There's a further issue, in that collection would be done by Saturn, a malefic or infortune. The third person who is usually taken as intervening to bring matters to the right conclusion might not really care and might do nothing to help.

Barbara Dunn says In practice it is fairly unusual to see a matter being perfected by collection of light

 

[Ronia]

OK, according to my table of dignities, Saturn is in Venus's term (but in her detriment). Not that it makes the term bigger dignity than it is but I had to say it. LOL

Now, I'll stick with Al Biruni because he suits me best and accept the square and Saturn as an older and grumpy person and wait and see what will happen. if anything comes out of this chart and it plays out, I'll definitely report back and add to our practical knowledge. after all, the almost perfect chart you had for me in the same area didn't bring anything, so... horaries are also mistaking sometimes.

To me the chart is very exciting. I've almost never seen two faster planets applying right after each other to a slower one! Wow.