Which 'social class' are the Knights?

[Bonny]

Hi there,

Sorry for the abstract question - just wondering if anyone has ideas on how to 'read' social class from the cards?

Not that I give social class much attention, but it's something that's come up in some discussions lately and I wondered how the readings might help clarify.

I thought the court cards generally might be 'upper class' or that the king might be upper class, Knights middle class, page working class /poor.

I read the suits carry meaning too - so the coins suit refers to business /professionals

Any ideas ?

Have a great day!

B

 

[Padma]

Bonny, you posted this thread in Chat - I think it is supposed to go in Talking Tarot or something like that (and likely why you have gotten no replies) Might want to ask a moderator to move it? It sounds like you'd get a lot of interesting opinions

 

[ravenest]

Ummmm ........ court cards . You know, 'the court', royalty, courtiers , people fopping around in palaces , etc. - 'Nobility'

They are their own class and live in the big castle up on the hill over there. I dont think you will find working class or the poor in the King's (or Queen's ) court. Knights are at the lower end of the nobility scale .

 

[Morwenna]

AFAIK, it's not the type of court card but the suit; swords=nobility, cups=clergy, coins=merchants, staves=peasants. At least that's what I heard it used to be.

 

[Padma]

AFAIK, it's not the type of court card but the suit; swords=nobility, cups=clergy, coins=merchants, staves=peasants. At least that's what I heard it used to be.

well, then, good thing I am the Queen of Swords!

 

[Bonny]

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for your resoonses on this question!

Padma , I will see about asking if it can be re-posted in a better place.

Thanks for these thoughts I'll reply to a little later on.

Blessings,

B

 

[Thirteen]

We might need to re-think those suits = class assignments

AFAIK, it's not the type of court card but the suit; swords=nobility, cups=clergy, coins=merchants, staves=peasants. At least that's what I heard it used to be.

I've never heard this. It makes sense (kinda), excepting that there are coin cards like 7/Pents showing a farmer. Wouldn't coins be both merchants and farmers?

I think, for us moderns, however, that we can't quite hold to this because we don't have much nobility left (the uber-rich merchants have become those, right? Along with the uber-famous...and where do superstars fit in? Musicians, actors, etc.?). And I don't think many working class consider themselves "peasants." There are plenty of those who labor with their hands who make good money (and even become owners of their own businesses, as peasants couldn't back in the old days).

And, again, there aren't a lot of clergy so much as those who are religious at home, and the jobs that the clergy used to do are now in the hands of others: scholars, teachers, those in outreach programs, therapists...With the rise of the middle class, the vanishing aristocracy and the workers of the world uniting (or being replaced by machines), as well as people being able to leave one "class" to rise or fall into another, we probably need to rethink this

 

[Thirteen]

Bonny, given Morwenna's list, you might now get how the courts work. The four suits are kingdoms. And the King is the leader of that kingdom--the "idea" man and founder, the one who makes decisions. The Queen is the one who manages the kingdom; she keeps it running. The Knight is the fighter/defender of the kingdom, as well as it's eyes and ears. He is also a student--on the "university" level, training for the job of King/Queen. To lead or manage. The Page is the general dogsbody; he is the apprentice, starting on the job, learning the ropes of leading/managing.

So, if the suit is the "coin" suit, which I think we'd agree still stands for merchants, then the "King" of Coins is the founder of the business (say a market); he decides what they need to put out on the shelves or take off; he deals with the customers and other merchants. The Queen is in the back room, arranging for those new products to be shipped to them, ordering around the page to sweep up or something from the back room; she also manages everyone's emotions and problems. The Knight is sent out to do battle with suppliers who have raised their prices--he's going to barter with them in the King's name, and if someone tries to open a similar market down the street, he might get into a fight with them. And the Page does a little of everything, shelves the products, works behind the counter, learns the business so that one day he might run it.

So, as Morwenna said, King/Queen/Knight/Page don't signal "class" per se, but position, job and rank within the kingdom, whatever that kingdom may be.

 

[Morwenna]

Thanks, Thirteen, that makes it very clear.

What I was listing were the medieval "estates" signified by the suits; obviously they would have to be adapted to modern life. I'm looking forward to more takes on this.

 

[Thirteen]

What I was listing were the medieval "estates" signified by the suits; obviously they would have to be adapted to modern life. I'm looking forward to more takes on this.

I figured. It's great historical information and, like I said, completely new to me. Definitely going into my notes! Thank you.