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the Emperor and the 4's

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

catti  01 Sep 2003 
i recently did a reading where the 4 of coins turned up and made no sense to me. others have since contributed to help me out with that particular throw , however , I found myself going over the4's- wondering what do they have in common/ what is the issue they address?
4 of wands - stable home
4 of swords- turning inward
4 of cups- opportunities from unexpected sources
4 of coins- material attachment
how do they relate to the Emperor - Authority, Stability?

once upon a time, i know i had this figured out , but it is just escaping me and today i pulled a 4 of swords in the same place the coins were yesterday!
i realize my keywords here are very vague and general and by no means am i suggesting they define these cards. 

Elle  01 Sep 2003 
Thirteen does a great job at explaining the numerical meanings of the deck - I would provide the link for you, Catti, but I am a technological disaster! It is on this site at Aeclectic.

I looked up the meaning of "Fours" for you: ruled by the Emperor; staus-quo; stability. Stuck, as it were...



HOLMES  01 Sep 2003 
one can see the four of swords as the emperor manifested in the mental world.
yet if one doesnt' have the basis for the four of swords down , the extension may not work as well as it could

for a four of sword i would use my sytem to say

four of swords , you are trying to mentally rest right now (then apply it to the question what is the issue you adress)
we are addressing the need to rest mentaly to prepare for a bigger event, even the toughest human must rest at some point , it is power to decide when to rest as to not to fatigue while others would over extend themselves.

then the logical emperor in the mental world would say
notice that i as the emperor in the rider waite tarot system does not move , i am in a pose like i am thinking and posing for an artist while i pose.
if the county was at war i would not have the time for this, and if the pressure of the county due to lots of crissis were upon me i would not have the time to rest to use my logical brain and so i would be reversed and coming from ill logic ( but it would be logic for as much as i make it so )

and then i use the extended system of numerology english style to extend that to be
1 plus 3 equals 4,
5 minus 1 ques four
and 14 minues ten equals four
the pattern of
4 plus 9 becomes 13
4 plus 11 makes 15
so that is why the missing patter of
4 plus ten makes 14 must logically fit in

then you get
mental emperor through hermit becomes the death card,
mental empror through wheel of fortune becomes the temperance card
mental emperor through justice becomes the devil card.

and you can extend the basis , mental rest in these times to prepare for the challeng ahead to

logically being alone to reconsider my strenghts has lead me to believe the death card can not be avoid and all i can do here is attempt to get us through it and to prepare us for the best possible survival ( thinking here of an emperor in times of war while resting in times of the four of swords )

logically the emperor will realize that if he goes with the flow of the wheel of fortune and bends like the weed before the wind he shall not break. hence he ends up in balance and peace of the harmony between two worlds the temperance card.
it is the mind which attempts to bring harmony to all things by realizing duality

the emperor by realizing his inner power and his conquences are his responsiblity looks upon the lowerself here symbolied the devil card and says ,
yes i know you are there and that we are two parts of a coind, but if i am to get anywhere in this world i can't not deny you , i can accept you but i dont' have to work with you and so i will over come you in my way.
the emperor thus moves from the duality of balance in the temperance card into the attempted defeat of his lower self.

and we come back to the four of swords
he lies there , gathering his strenght ,attempting to defeat his fears, and he is preparing his mind for the coming day ,
i shall do what i must in order to suceed
yet he is wondering shall i do so at the cost of my soul ?

all these lessons are reflected in the four of swords and more for i am but one person who has seen a little of life and another person with an entirly differnt view would see differnt things and signs,
and so this comes to you , to decide what the four of swords means to you and to devle deeper into the card past the keyword.

notice i kept on saying logic , to me that is my keyword for emperor
mental , that is my keyword for swords,
but i tried to extend the keywords and not to rely on them due to the system.

this is but my system of understanding (virgo here eheh )
and i shall leave you to find yours :O) 

Inana  01 Sep 2003 
I think this is the link Elle was talking about, Thirteen's basics:

I will try to add my own thoughts here about fours, not from a strict numerology point but based on observations in the environment, if its from some use.

Think about a chair, a bed, a table. I know this can seem stupid but this kind of thoughts often help me to understand better. All them are made by humans and all them have four legs. A car has four wheels, while a cyckle has two. Whats the difference? A structure that gives you more estability, structures where you can sit or stay without the risk of falling down.
Fours based on the Emperor, are about rationallity, logic, structure, order, keeping the things like they are, maintaining the position you have achieved, having the control, and sometimes no movement or evolution at all.

Just a thought: If you get the four of coins and after the four of sword in the same place, is possible this has to do with a need of taking care of the health by resting and relaxing some? This way you can recover energies. I dont know, maybe im wrong, just something that crossed my mind. 

Elle  01 Sep 2003 
Yes, Inana, thank you for posting the link.

Catti, along with these fine people's suggestions, I hope this link helps .



starsongs  27 Sep 2003 
What you've all shared here has prompted alot of thought. I've enjyed reading along so much!..Thank you..:-)

And while I was doing so, had the sense that the 4's also relate to the Tower. 4+4+4+4=16

They could represent the 4 corners of the structure and the foundation which is a necessary phase of growth; the stability, that also becomes stagnant if inertia, self-satifaction, clinging to the status quo sets in...and then the tower would be the necessary and related function of the 4's when rendered immobile in their growth process...crystalization..the moving forward connected to the Chariot....1+6=7...


Umbrae  27 Sep 2003 
Before you can build anything - you need a foundation.

To build a foundation, you first clear away the rubble, even the ground, and lay the four cornerstones. 

The the Emperor and the 4's thread was originally posted on 01 Sep 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

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