Thread: Pluto
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Originally Posted by sapienza

Also, I can't find the quote now but somewhere in this thread I remember Minderwiz saying that Psychological Astrology needs the outer planets. This is interesting. Is is because this type of astrology was developed with those planets in use, or because the archetypes of those planets are important and not covered by the traditional planets?
A lot of Astrologers following a traditional practice will argue that anything and everything can be incorporated into the traditional planet and sign rulerships. However I'm not so sure of that. Ideas may well be ruled by Mercury but when it comes to the substance of those ideas..... The Jungian Astrologer, Arthur Dione (Jungian Birth Charts) says that the outer planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are connected to the Collective Unconscious. Now whether or not the Collective Unconscious has an objective existence (or indeed any meaningful existence) is irrelevant here, I don't see how the concept can be meaningfully symbolised using a traditional approach.

When it comes to personality disorders there are perhaps more clinical uses of the outer planets, In the context of Mother/child relations someone with Mars squaring the Moon, might have some anger or resentment against their mother, having Pluto squaring the Moon opens up all sorts of subtle issues and dimensions for the Consulting Astrologer. I also think many of them have a dependency on these planets that make them the first thing to look at in a chart rather than the last.

Originally Posted by Kibeth
I've read that Pluto relates to Scorpio because the Scorpio is unchanging, unwavering and very focused. Pluto changes sign every 21 YEARS, compared to the very changeable Moon which changes sign every 2.5 DAYS. But ... I find it easier to talk a Scorpio into a beautiful dress than to try and convince a Taurus-afflicted Gemini to leave a boring Broadway show. Would not Pluto's un-changeability better pertain to Taurus then? Taurus is the more stubborn.
The odd thing is that Pluto is literally extremely eccentric compared to the 9 'full' planets being inclined at 17 degrees to the ecliptic and having an orbit which passes inside the orbit of Neptune (leaving Neptune as the outermost planet) for some 20 years (it was last interior to Neptune between 1979 and 1999) - so Pluto actually 'wavers' quite a bit.

Originally Posted by kibeth
Finally, as for Pluto's status as a planet .. The Sun and Moon aren't, astronomically speaking, planets. But if we remove those two, would not two of astrology's most important planets disappear?
Astrology uses the original meaning of 'planet' being a 'wanderer' and it's an adjective applied to what the ancients regarded as a particular type of star - wandering stars and the other type being fixed stars. We still refer to fixed stars today, (though actually all stars are on the move but at a much slower perceived speed than the 'planets').
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