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Naomi Ningishzidda  Naomi Ningishzidda is offline
Join Date: 07 Aug 2011
Location: Olympia, Washington, USA
Posts: 72
Naomi Ningishzidda 
this is very pedantic

Originally Posted by daphne View Post
What kind of art do they use, computer generated, photo-deck? I can not find pictures to figure it out.
Sketch in pencil or digital first, then digital painting. I was trained by Kathryn Manzo in Tennessee, at her American atelier in the European Academic tradition which is lineaged to Michelangelo via Academie Julian and the Ecole De Beaux de Arts. She trained under Tony Ryder and Ted Seth Jacobs both linked to The Art Student League in New York. That reminds me I need to send her a copy. The last time I saw her I was leaving for Olympia Washington to join m1thr0s, it was her birthday and I gave her a pair of vivid yellow Givenchy earrings.

The "geometric" stuff was done by m1thr0s by hand in vector. He has some analog stuff dating back to the 70's and it's just as exact, using freaking ballpoint pens and pencils but vectors makes life a lot easier.

I've run into this before with concept art jobs, they always want to see the traditional work *first* before hiring for digital painting - if you cannot paint traditionally you cannot paint digitally - period, end of story. You can photomanipulate very effectively but we all know it isn't the same even though it can be very good. Right now there is no market for anything *but* photo manipulation in the book cover market for example. There is no right or wrong there - somehow there is a perception that photo manipulation and photo montage is a bit "naughty".

I prefer digital - I mean, everything is digital now in concept art as it offers more flexibility, one has no limit on cost of canvas or paint - I can work as big as I like with as many colors as I need. I know an artist who actually does the digitals first and then creates his book covers in acrylic for sake of convenience. King of Staves has a full size oil version I'll try to get a photo of it sometime this week. Here is some of my student work from 2004

I do work with oil now and have been working on a series of Ouroboros eggs for quite some time.

There are a lot of photocollage decks out there m1thr0s and I both like such as the Dakini oracle and photomanipulation decks - neither of us are afraid of that and we do not dislike them.

But I was trained in the classical atelier tradition so I use the same techniques digitally that I do with traditional media.

It's also impossible to use photos for a commercial project if one is to avoid lawsuits at all. Even if I paint from a photo that photo is still (rightfully) owned by the photographer. There are a few *master copies* in the pack but these were chosen deliberately as a nod to my school and because I got bored of drawing myself.

That doesn't mean we don't use reference material - even William Bougueureau used photos to check his work.

Here is a link to a tutorial I made for Justice for some other artists in my sketchbook at and an excerpt, i don't know wtf is wrong with the images in the thread ill try to fix that later on:

"A word on reference use: Normally I wouldn't post reference material. There is some confusion on how reference pics are used, or should be used. You shouldn't be copying straight from the photo, it doesn't leave any room for your creativity. Instead of making the image fit the photo, I made a presketch and went out looking for a model in a pose that fit what I was about to do. At the end it will bear only a superficial resemblance to the photo. When you use photo reference, try not to trace. It will degrade your hand to eye skills and cripple you if you try to draw from life or go to traditional media. Tracing with traditional media is a messy technique that Michelangelo perfected and is still used today (involving a cloth for trad style, or modern foamcore board, a pounce wheel, charcoal dust and a fresh piece of paper plus the original drawing which will be ruined) and should only be used when it really will save you time. I used it once when I had to transfer a serious **** up on my first cast drawing. The process is complicated and it did shave off a couple hours.

In photoshop when I have a photo next to me I am using a sight-size method. Meaning that, just like in a 3D studio, I am making the image the same size as the canvas I am transfering it to. In the atelier this is done by moving the reference material back (if it is larger than your canvas) or forward and pushing the canvas back (if it is smaller than your canvas - a rare thing) until you can look at them both side by side and they appear the same size. I measure by holding my cursor over the photograph (separate file) in Photoshop and move the cursor back and forth without making any marks. Like in real life with a pencil or brush or finger, I am getting a "feel" for the angle of the line before putting it down. I move back to my blank file and put down the line. This becomes so easy over time that tracing will actually be *more* time consuming and give you less freedom. You are enhancing your sight-size skills and also breaking free of the reference constraints. With complicated images where you are going to be making heavy modifications, this becomes sort of a sloppy dance and you will make adjustments during the painting process. Sometimes I have the sketch all worked out perfectly, sometimes not. If you watch the NOX tutorial you will understand what I am talking about as he actually goes on about making major adjustments while in the middle of the image.

It will seem frustrating at first to work this way but after working this way for about three years your brain will learn to obey you perfectly."
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