Lee
Hi --
I'm a very infrequent visitor to this forum, so please forgive me if this topic has been discussed in the past.
I'm in kind of a strange situation. I find myself intrigued by and attracted to astrology, and I would like to learn more about it. I think it's fascinating the way a whole personality can be mapped and diagrammed, and as a symbol system it's very appealling to me.
But...
I have one major question that keeps repeating itself in my mind whenever I start to get interested in astrology. Which is: is there an obective truth to it? In other words, is there a verifiable connection between the position of the planets at birth and factors of one's personality, and a connection between the position of the planets at various times throughout our lives and events that happen to us?
It seems to me that there are some problems if we say that it is objectively true. Such as:
If it's objectively true, why has there been such difficulty in confirming this through studies? I know that there have been a few studies that have shown some tantalizing suggestions, but nothing concrete. At the same time, however, there have been many more studies which show no correlations whatsoever. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but it seems to me that either something is objectively true or it isn't. If it is, then it ought to be easy enough to confirm it with a scientific study. If it can't be confirmed through scientific studies, then I think it becomes real problematic to make claims that it's objectively true. If we're to say something is objectively true but at the same time we say it can't be shown to be true, then I think it becomes kind of meaningless to make the statement that it's true.
Another problem for me is that I've heard from several different people that they've gone to different astrologers, and each astrologer differs vastly in what they have to say about the person's birth chart. I can certainly understand minor differences, but, assuming the astrologers in question are using more or less the basic, standard techniques, shouldn't the readings have broad similarities, instead of being totally different?
The phrase "standard techniques" brings up another problem, which is the seeming arbitrariness of which techniques astrologers choose to use. House systems is a good example. Houses are important because they tell us in what fields of our lives the energies are manifesting. So if different house systems place our planets' birth positions in different houses, thus resulting in completely different interpretations, then how can astrology be objectively true? If I use the equal house system and you use the Koch system, and therefore we come up with completely different interpretations of Sam's chart, then how can we possibly say that astrology describes an objective truth about Sam as a person?
Now, another theory that I've seen (although very infrequently) is that the features of a horoscope chart simply act as triggers which enable the astrologer to access his or her own subconscious knowledge. Thus, a chart would work the way a Tarot card spread works (at least, this is my theory of how a Tarot spread works), i.e. the cards are simply a tool which allows the reader to access his or her own subconscious knowledge and perceptions about the querent. This is an attractive theory because it would account for the arbitrariness of techniques used, and also for different astrologers' differing interpretations of the same chart.
The only problem with this theory is that most astrology authors which I've read (over the years I've read or skimmed through many of the well-regarded astrology books) write about astrology as if it were indeed objectively true, although most of them don't offer any explanation of how it might work, other than simply saying some variation on "as above, so below," which doesn't really satisfy me.
Am I just looking at this all the wrong way? I would love to hear others' opinions about this, because I would truly like to find a reasonable-sounding philosophical framework for astrology, so that I could then proceed to study it, which I really would like to do.
Please believe, it's not my intention to attack anyone's beliefs or to ask anyone justify their beliefs. This is simply how I see things, and I would actually be grateful if, as I say, someone can help me to find some way to think of astrology which makes sense to me.
-- Lee
I'm a very infrequent visitor to this forum, so please forgive me if this topic has been discussed in the past.
I'm in kind of a strange situation. I find myself intrigued by and attracted to astrology, and I would like to learn more about it. I think it's fascinating the way a whole personality can be mapped and diagrammed, and as a symbol system it's very appealling to me.
But...
I have one major question that keeps repeating itself in my mind whenever I start to get interested in astrology. Which is: is there an obective truth to it? In other words, is there a verifiable connection between the position of the planets at birth and factors of one's personality, and a connection between the position of the planets at various times throughout our lives and events that happen to us?
It seems to me that there are some problems if we say that it is objectively true. Such as:
If it's objectively true, why has there been such difficulty in confirming this through studies? I know that there have been a few studies that have shown some tantalizing suggestions, but nothing concrete. At the same time, however, there have been many more studies which show no correlations whatsoever. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but it seems to me that either something is objectively true or it isn't. If it is, then it ought to be easy enough to confirm it with a scientific study. If it can't be confirmed through scientific studies, then I think it becomes real problematic to make claims that it's objectively true. If we're to say something is objectively true but at the same time we say it can't be shown to be true, then I think it becomes kind of meaningless to make the statement that it's true.
Another problem for me is that I've heard from several different people that they've gone to different astrologers, and each astrologer differs vastly in what they have to say about the person's birth chart. I can certainly understand minor differences, but, assuming the astrologers in question are using more or less the basic, standard techniques, shouldn't the readings have broad similarities, instead of being totally different?
The phrase "standard techniques" brings up another problem, which is the seeming arbitrariness of which techniques astrologers choose to use. House systems is a good example. Houses are important because they tell us in what fields of our lives the energies are manifesting. So if different house systems place our planets' birth positions in different houses, thus resulting in completely different interpretations, then how can astrology be objectively true? If I use the equal house system and you use the Koch system, and therefore we come up with completely different interpretations of Sam's chart, then how can we possibly say that astrology describes an objective truth about Sam as a person?
Now, another theory that I've seen (although very infrequently) is that the features of a horoscope chart simply act as triggers which enable the astrologer to access his or her own subconscious knowledge. Thus, a chart would work the way a Tarot card spread works (at least, this is my theory of how a Tarot spread works), i.e. the cards are simply a tool which allows the reader to access his or her own subconscious knowledge and perceptions about the querent. This is an attractive theory because it would account for the arbitrariness of techniques used, and also for different astrologers' differing interpretations of the same chart.
The only problem with this theory is that most astrology authors which I've read (over the years I've read or skimmed through many of the well-regarded astrology books) write about astrology as if it were indeed objectively true, although most of them don't offer any explanation of how it might work, other than simply saying some variation on "as above, so below," which doesn't really satisfy me.
Am I just looking at this all the wrong way? I would love to hear others' opinions about this, because I would truly like to find a reasonable-sounding philosophical framework for astrology, so that I could then proceed to study it, which I really would like to do.
Please believe, it's not my intention to attack anyone's beliefs or to ask anyone justify their beliefs. This is simply how I see things, and I would actually be grateful if, as I say, someone can help me to find some way to think of astrology which makes sense to me.
-- Lee