Becoming a Thoth-devotee: newbie questions...

I am. I recently purchased my first Thoth deck, and couldn't use the cards for some time. I felt I wasn't ready--or rather that they weren't ready for me. (Is it just me, or does this deck have a personality of its own---kind of a moody one?)

Anyway, one day I finally felt very strongly that I shoud read with them, and did three readings. (One is here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=80434)
The accuracy of some cards was chilling. Each of the readings was just connected with me instantly, compared to readings I've had with other decks. If you're in this forum, I suspect you know what I mean.

But I do have some questions that seem too general for the "search" function to help with:

1) How do the Thoth court cards correspond with the Court cards of other decks? I understand the re-ordering and re-aming, but are the attributes of the Prince (more-or-less) comperable to the attributes of the King in other decks?

2)tHE "RE-NAMED" cards...are the meanings of these altered in anyway (other than your personal reaction to it)

Hunting down a decent "Book of Thoth", but thought I'd see what wisdom can be breought to the table here

" O, my Son, in this the Colophon of mine Epistle will I recall the Title and Superscription thereof; that is, the Book of Wisdom or Folly. I proclaim Blessing and Worship unto Nuith our Lady and her Lord, Hadith, for the Miracle of the Anatomy of the Child Ra-Hoor-Khuit, as it is shewed in the design Minutum Mundum, the Tree of Life. For though Wisdom be the Second Emanation of His Essence, there is a path to separate and to join them, the Reference thereof being Aleph, that is One indeed, but also an Hundred and Eleven in his full Orthography; to signify the Most Holy Trinity. And by metathesis it is Thick Darkness, and Sudden Death. This is also the Number of AUM, which is AMOUN, and the Root-Sound of OMNE or, in Greek, PAN; and it is a Number of the Sun."

you can read it online at http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/libro_thoth.htm

good luck tho, as you can see, it's heavy lifting.

frelkins said:

you can read it online at http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/libro_thoth.htm

good luck tho, as you can see, it's heavy lifting.

Click to expand...

Super link

rissa said:

1) How do the Thoth court cards correspond with the Court cards of other decks? I understand the re-ordering and re-aming, but are the attributes of the Prince (more-or-less) comperable to the attributes of the King in other decks?

2)tHE "RE-NAMED" cards...are the meanings of these altered in anyway (other than your personal reaction to it)

Click to expand...

1) I see it like this
Knight = King
Queen = Queen
Prince = Prince
Princess = Princess
So my answer to the second part of 1) is No- Prince = Prince.

Queen rules and gives orders on the throne at home (Stability). The Knight goes out into the world and ensures that the order of the Queen is throughtout the Empire (Active).

I see the arrangement as part of the New Aeon Equality of the sexes ... or perhaps more correctly, the equality of the roles of the sexes. The Queen is not just an assistant or wife to the King, she rules in her own right.

2)I believe all the major Cards in Thoth are somewhat different to others as their interpretation is in light of the principles and philosophy of Thelema. See what Crowley says about the Devil card compared to Waite's version (for example) also another example is the Aeon, a VERY different idea to The Last Judgement.

His reasoning for knight=king is (although my memory is hazy) that the prince defeats the knight and marries the princess, thus becoming the knight (his knightly actions) and the princess the new queen. It's a cycle

I personally think A.C. made some differences to the majors. Lust, Devil, and Adjustment are three that come to mind. Waite's deck is fairly laden with Christian symbolism, and Crowley deviates from that.

Happy to hear your first readings went so well.

RW

For me Art is not Temperance.
In particular.

Knight = king
Queen = Queen
Prince = Knight
Princess = Page

But they don't really fit.

You have to read the Thoth as the thoth.
if you read the thoth with RWS meanings you are just reading the RWS by proxy.
(and the same the other way round, which I do)

Lillie said:

For me Art is not Temperance.
In particular.

Knight = king
Queen = Queen
Prince = Knight
Princess = Page

But they don't really fit.

You have to read the Thoth as the thoth.
if you read the thoth with RWS meanings you are just reading the RWS by proxy.
(and the same the other way round, which I do)

Click to expand...

Yes I completely agree. When I am reading with the Thoth, it is it's own system, I don't even think RWS (hard not too though!). I don't muddle the 2.

I strongly recommend picking up The Book of Thoth. I think Crowley does a great job creating lively individuals with his court card descriptions. He also helps you look at the Thoth deck as more than just a tarot deck in the tradition of modern tarot decks. The Thoth must definitely be appreciated as its own variation and not of the RWS variation. I also agree with what the above individuals have stated on the ordering of the court cards.

Read Crowley's commentary!

Just for interest, here's what the Aeclectic review by similia has to say about the courts:

One of the differences between the Thoth deck, and other well known decks such as the Rider Waite Smith, Marseille or Golden Dawn decks is the court cards. The courts are virtually identical pictorially to those of the Golden Dawn (Golden Dawn Tarot, Golden Dawn Magical Tarot etc.) and are based on the features described in Book T (a piece of Golden Dawn literature on the tarot). In the Golden Dawn tradition there are the standard four court cards. Kings (shown riding on a horse), Queens (seated on a throne), Princes (drawn forth in a carriage) and Princesses (standing). Crowley has maintained these features, but caused much confusion by renaming his “Kings” Knights in order to better represent the virility of the character. For someone used to the RWS or Marseille style Courts in which the King and Queen are both seated, and the Knight is the figure on the horse this can be initially confusing.

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http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/aleister-crowley-thoth/review.shtml

BTW you may notice that the Prince's chariots are drawn by the creature associated with each suit's element. e.g. the Prince of Discs (Coins) has a bull. One other deck with a similar system for the court cards is the Gareth Knight.

Oh boy, I'm in trouble because I read the Princes as Kings; the Knights as Knights. Guys on horseback just look like Knights, so as not to confuse my mind when I read, I figured I would just leave it like that. It all comes down to how your mind processes the images, in the end.
I am interested in reading at least some of the Book of Thoth, but I will skip the heavy parts.(!)
Wish me luck (I'll need it). But I do love the way it speaks to me.