Lenormand Brazil: Baralho Cigano (Gypsy Deck).

DownUnderNZer

Still have not found my European Gypsy deck which is in a box somewhere and I have not unpacked at least 20 or more. Did look through my in built today.

Wonder why they would "frown" upon the Gypsy cards and yet bring them out when it was seen as accepted by you and your group.

I still wonder if there has been a "crossover" between countries (especially Europe) with systems whereas Brazil has obviously established its own method based on its "culture" perhaps.

Have also discovered OWLS has its own meaning in their system. About "romance" and "couples" and with the SNAKE it is actually looked upon as a "healthy sex life" rather than "discord" or "problems". Who would have thought? :bugeyed:

It is a little like the German with the reference to "couples" only usually it is an "older couple" like grand parents.

From the cards I have seen so far - there are well over a handful that have different meanings or combined ones. It is not limited to a few.

What I found with the translation is the "literal" way some of the cards are looked at like with SHIP being about "direction" as in what direction a person might take. (Also long journeys).

Soon I will be seeing just how many of the 36 cards are completely different or not in meaning. As to why this vast adaption in methods, would be something worth knowing, but would anyone really have that history.

DND

Teheuti said:
From what I saw when in Brazil and from my friend, Deborah Jazzini, it's not a single, fixed system, so it is hard to generalize. Most professionals are not just "tarot readers." They work as consultants and healers to their clients and use whatever they believe will work in any particular circumstance. The culture is an even greater mix of ethnicities than most other places and each brings something to the table, resulting in a truly eclectic combo that depends largely on the background and interests of each particular professional consultant/healer. The spiritual aspects seem to be something that everyone understands, gives creedence to and each person employs differently. Some people have systems that incorporate each of the Orishas, for instance, and some are not so formal about it.

"Gypsy cards" were somewhat looked down on by the Tarot readers I met at the conference until they learned that I, Marcus Katz and Tali Godwin were totally into them. Then people started bringing out their own decks. Tarot, with its history, esotericism and correspondences can be a little more intellectually high-brow (on the surface), but when working with individuals they'll use whatever works. Deborah, for instance, teaches a personal system that uses correspondences between Tarot and Lenormand. Many people integrate crystals, Reiki, astrology, prayer, ritual and much more into their practice.

These are just my observations based on a week with Tarot readers, consultants, healers, and priests in Sao Paulo, and talking with Deborah about it separately.

The people I've talked to from Argentina seem to use a much more European approach to Lenormand.

Teheuti

DownUnderNZer said:
Wonder why they would "frown" upon the Gypsy cards and yet bring them out when it was seen as accepted by you and your group.

Edited:
It doesn't have the intellectual cache that Tarot does and it was a Tarot conference. It might be vaguely similar to the way Tarotists regarded the Gypsy Witch deck here in the U.S.

It's only recently (past five to seven years) that the Lenormand deck has been recognized or taken seriously by Tarotists here in the U.S., even though it was quite well-know at least in the New York and Chicago areas in the 19th century.

DownUnderNZer

Thanks for suggesting Deborah Jazzini.

She contacted me today when I was not too far from the supermarket and we chatted back and forth online although no easy task on my phone.

Not sure why she thought her English was not great. :bugeyed:

No real details and not sure what she is prepared to do with me yet, but we will be chatting again tomorrow and at some point via Skype if it works out that way.

I think I'm actually happy enough if the meanings I have are accurate. More details would be appreciated though like timing perhaps and the real differences that are not known online.

Will see.....

DND

Adding: She is sending me an example of how she reads if I got that message right.

gregory said:
Deborah Jazzini (see your other thread about these things) might well be able to help big time. She does use them - according to google ! - she is very good on Lenormand in general, with her own method as well, and she has some good looking videos - not that I can understand them. But if you can make contact, she does speak English.

Teheuti said:
There are lots of sites with meanings

Here's one for the Clover, Trefoil, or Obstacles card.
http://www.astrocentro.com.br/blog/tarot/carta-trevo-obstaculos

Here's a photo of my two Brazilian decks. Generally the #2 card seems to be about overcoming obstacles (the logs in the road that maybe appear as the "sticks" mentioned above.] The deck on the right has a modern Pagan slant.

https://marygreer.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/image.jpeg

Teheuti said:
From what I saw when in Brazil and from my friend, Deborah Jazzini, it's not a single, fixed system, so it is hard to generalize. Most professionals are not just "tarot readers." They work as consultants and healers to their clients and use whatever they believe will work in any particular circumstance. The culture is an even greater mix of ethnicities than most other places and each brings something to the table, resulting in a truly eclectic combo that depends largely on the background and interests of each particular professional consultant/healer. The spiritual aspects seem to be something that everyone understands, gives creedence to and each person employs differently. Some people have systems that incorporate each of the Orishas, for instance, and some are not so formal about it.

"Gypsy cards" were somewhat looked down on by the Tarot readers I met at the conference until they learned that I, Marcus Katz and Tali Godwin were totally into them. Then people started bringing out their own decks. Tarot, with its history, esotericism and correspondences can be a little more intellectually high-brow (on the surface), but when working with individuals they'll use whatever works. Deborah, for instance, teaches a personal system that uses correspondences between Tarot and Lenormand. Many people integrate crystals, Reiki, astrology, prayer, ritual and much more into their practice.

These are just my observations based on a week with Tarot readers, consultants, healers, and priests in Sao Paulo, and talking with Deborah about it separately.

The people I've talked to from Argentina seem to use a much more European approach to Lenormand.

Le Fanu

Just an aside - the LoS Lenormand Oracle (you know the one; the bigger Dondorf with the engraving of her on the lid of the box) - is issued in a Brazilian edition. I have the English one, I also picked up the Portuguese version here in Lisbon (and it is Brazilian Portuguese) and it has different meanings in the accompanying booklet. It has more *Brazilian* suggestions although it doesn't have any reference to obstacles or the other actual card variations.

Mario dos Ventos' Book, The Book Of Destiny; Fortune Telling with Lenormand cards also has more Brazilian-y meanings.

Lenormand Brazil: Baralho Cigano (Gypsy Deck).

DownUnderNZer

Teheuti

DownUnderNZer

Le Fanu