Lessons of The Sun

Most say that when you dislike a card, it's because you haven't accepted this card's lessons or have an issue with it. I share this view.

Reading Robert Wang's "Caballistic Tarot" I found I have a dislike for the Sun card. And thinking back, I never really liked that card. So I think I should work on my understanding of The Sun.

My first thought is that my dislike stems from the social context which accompanies this card - I'm not that sociable and distrust the "happy social life" stuff that goes with the sun. As lone wolf (oh my, aren't we cool?) I feel much more attracted to the Moon.

So what are the Sun's lessons in your experience, spiritual and profane?

Science is pretty neat

Farzon said:

I'm not that sociable and distrust the "happy social life" stuff that goes with the sun. As lone wolf (oh my, aren't we cool?) I feel much more attracted to the Moon.

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While the sun is about generosity and self-confidence, I don't think that quite translates to being "social" (where did you see that interpretation?). At least, not in the social butterfly context. To me, at least, it translates to being a good person who interacts "warmly" with others. I mean, I'm a Lone Wolf type, too, but I think it very important to say "good morning" to the barrista who makes my coffee, and "thank you," to person who holds open a door for me. I think it important to exchange a smile for a smile. All these things I associate with the Sun. And none of them require me to interact with people in any way that I wouldn't like.

As for Wang's book, he and others tend to cast the Sun as the "intellect." This might account for your dislike. Because we on this forum tend to fetishize intuition, feelings, spirituality, art and mysticism (how not?). This means, that, in turn, we often view the intellect and reason (the light of day) with distain. This is backed up by popular culture which always seems to cast the science/reason person as arrogant and dismissive of "magic" and faith. In popular books and movies, the science/reason person is always wrong, the believer/artistic/feeling person always right. But here is the irony: we here are voicing this distain for science, reason, logic and technology on an internet forum. Doesn't that strike anyone as just a little bit hypocritical? I mean, I'm all for living in the wildness with goats and chickens and a vegetable garden. But that green, solar power you'll be using to charge your computer and iPhone was invented by vast numbers of incredibly intelligent "Sun" people using reason, logic and science.

That's the Sun side of things. You can rhapsodize at length about the beauty of the emotional and creative Moon, but keep in mind, if not for the Sun, you wouldn't be able to do it here, on this forum. It wouldn't exist. So...intellect and logic and reason...they can be pretty useful. And they don't have to be opposed to art, music, or poetry (again, consider this forum—discussing mysticism by way of technology). Both Sun and Moon keep the world turning round. You can like and appreciate both. Dark, cool, lone wolf mystic that I am, I still have a real interest in science and I'm grateful for the logic, reason and technology that has made this forum, and solar power, a reality. So. Go Sun!

Thirteen said:

While the sun is about generosity and self-confidence, I don't think that quite translates to being "social" (where did you see that interpretation?). At least, not in the social butterfly context. To me, at least, it translates to being a good person who interacts "warmly" with others. I mean, I'm a Lone Wolf type, too, but I think it very important to say "good morning" to the barrista who makes my coffee, and "thank you," to person who holds open a door for me. I think it important to exchange a smile for a smile. All these things I associate with the Sun. And none of them require me to interact with people in any way that I wouldn't like.

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Actually, I don´t know any more… I think it was about the Marseilles-sun card, the writer discussed the symbolism of the wall and the two children showing freedom in certain boundaries and a joyous meeting therein. That led the writer to the meaning of a joyful social context. The interpretation stuck with me and fits quite often in my experience – if other cards support the meaning of course.
I share your views on politeness, that´s not what I meant with sociable. I thought about making friends easily. I like your interpretation of sociable more than mine .

Thirteen said:

As for Wang's book, he and others tend to cast the Sun as the "intellect." This might account for your dislike. Because we on this forum tend to fetishize intuition, feelings, spirituality, art and mysticism (how not?). This means, that, in turn, we often view the intellect and reason (the light of day) with distain. This is backed up by popular culture which always seems to cast the science/reason person as arrogant and dismissive of "magic" and faith. In popular books and movies, the science/reason person is always wrong, the believer/artistic/feeling person always right. But here is the irony: we here are voicing this distain for science, reason, logic and technology on an internet forum. Doesn't that strike anyone as just a little bit hypocritical? I mean, I'm all for living in the wildness with goats and chickens and a vegetable garden. But that green, solar power you'll be using to charge your computer and iPhone was invented by vast numbers of incredibly intelligent "Sun" people using reason, logic and science. That's the Sun side of things. You can rhapsodize at length about the beauty of the emotional and creative Moon, but keep in mind, if not for the Sun, you wouldn't be able to do it here, on this forum. It wouldn't exist. So...intellect and logic and reason...they can be pretty useful. And they don't have to be opposed to art, music, or poetry (again, consider this forum—discussing mysticism by way of technology). Both Sun and Moon keep the world turning round. You can like and appreciate both. Dark, cool, lone wolf mystic that I am, I still have a real interest in science and I'm grateful for the logic, reason and technology that has made this forum, and solar power, a reality. So. Go Sun!

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But my dislike doesn´t stem from this meaning that I in fact just recently learned. Actually, I cherish intellect and reason. Much more than some people around me, who don´t give anything about esoterics, I believe in the positive power of reason and scientific thinking. In my opinion, the world needs more of it. Less desire for fixed answers, more curiosity about the nature of things. More desire to learn and know and doubt. I think I begin to like this card.
But you helped me to discover one of my issues with this card anyway. You´re so right with what you say about intuition and these things. I don´t know if it holds true for others, but I´m the typical Pisces-guy: romantic and dream-chasing, feeling misunderstood very often, because my feelings are, oh so deep and oh, so true… my whole lone-wolf-attitude has something about it which is just show, egocentrism and vanity. Which are all negative sides of the Sun´s pride… So I guess, I dislike the sides of the Sun that I see in myself.

Thank you for your answer! You´re always so wise .

ETA: Just came to my mind again: I decided to meditate on this card and had quite an unpleasant dream tonight. About male authorities in my life... Maybe it´s also about gender. Maybe I am more at peace with my feminine side than with my own masculinity. Also, since I was a child I always wished the Moon was connoted male, not the Sun. I think there´s definetly a gender-issue at hand...

Sun Goddesses

Farzon said:

ETA: Just came to my mind again: I decided to meditate on this card and had quite an unpleasant dream tonight. About male authorities in my life... Maybe it´s also about gender.

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Ah, yes. That's the other side of it. When we think about the intellect and reason, the science guys, we often envision male scientists "explaining" the world to the dumb females. In a lot of old movies, to be intuitive and emotional was also to be irrational--feminine was weak, silly, superstitious. Masculine was the rational and superior--and patronizing. Exactly those sorts of males that are "authorities," trying to tell you what you must be like rather than letting you be what you are.

Fortunately, we now have a lot of female science types (there are some really cool young ladies giving science lessons on the web. They're great!)--and we can see, also, from the news of religious organizations and politicians, that men can be wildly irrational, giving into emotions and superstition rather than reason. But that doesn't help with the issue of the Sun being viewed as male. Fortunately, that's not a global phenomenon. Perhaps it would help if, when next you meditate on the Sun, you think of Sun goddesses.

There's actually quite a few. There was a Norse goddess who, yes, flew her chariot across the sky, exactly like Helios, a Celtic solar goddess, a Hindu solar goddess, and, of course, Korean and Japanese sun goddesses--both of whom were goddess not only of the sun, but who were kinda the key creation deities. Other cultures didn't see the sun as masculine and, therefore, representative of all those dislikable authoritarian qualities...why should we? And yes, there are Moon Gods, too--Egyptian, Hittite...

You just have to find the avatars that speak to you

I'm a loner type but I always like the Sun card. It's bright, cheerful, indicates a clear mind and good fortune.

I can be very cynical, but what's not to like about this card??

Farzon said:

So what are the Sun's lessons in your experience, spiritual and profane?

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Depends on the deck. In decks where we see a naked child on a horse, I invariably get annoyed with the card. I mean, REALLY? In a fabulous solar card like the Lebanese Sun, I am in awe, as if I am looking on the face of a divine being.

mabcosmic said:

I'm a loner type but I always like the Sun card. It's bright, cheerful, indicates a clear mind and good fortune.

I can be very cynical, but what's not to like about this card??

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I start to wonder myself the longer this thread becomes! [emoji4] Maybe I'll finally get over my Sun issues? I like the clear mind thing. I think I have focused too much on other meanings which I found pretty boring.

nisaba said:

Depends on the deck. In decks where we see a naked child on a horse, I invariably get annoyed with the card. I mean, REALLY? In a fabulous solar card like the Lebanese Sun, I am in awe, as if I am looking on the face of a divine being.

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You hit a point that bothers me as well... in so many decks the Sun card seems to be the less inspired card of the deck. A sun card I absolutely adore is the Mary-El Sun.

Thirteen said:

Ah, yes. That's the other side of it. When we think about the intellect and reason, the science guys, we often envision male scientists "explaining" the world to the dumb females. In a lot of old movies, to be intuitive and emotional was also to be irrational--feminine was weak, silly, superstitious. Masculine was the rational and superior--and patronizing. Exactly those sorts of males that are "authorities," trying to tell you what you must be like rather than letting you be what you are.

Fortunately, we now have a lot of female science types (there are some really cool young ladies giving science lessons on the web. They're great!)--and we can see, also, from the news of religious organizations and politicians, that men can be wildly irrational, giving into emotions and superstition rather than reason. But that doesn't help with the issue of the Sun being viewed as male. Fortunately, that's not a global phenomenon. Perhaps it would help if, when next you meditate on the Sun, you think of Sun goddesses.

There's actually quite a few. There was a Norse goddess who, yes, flew her chariot across the sky, exactly like Helios, a Celtic solar goddess, a Hindu solar goddess, and, of course, Korean and Japanese sun goddesses--both of whom were goddess not only of the sun, but who were kinda the key creation deities. Other cultures didn't see the sun as masculine and, therefore, representative of all those dislikable authoritarian qualities...why should we? And yes, there are Moon Gods, too--Egyptian, Hittite...

You just have to find the avatars that speak to you

Click to expand...

Thanks again. Reading that made me shiver, cause, how could I forget that? I used to imagine the Sun as Amaterasu the Japanese Sun goddess - and I liked the card back then! Your hint at different deities is very helpful as well! I'll do some research on Sun related gods and goddesses to broaden my understanding of that card and the symbol of the Sun in general.

Concerning the gender issue: in Germanic and Norse mythology, the Sun is female. In German children books, she appears as Frau Sonne, and the Sun's grammatical gender is feminine: DIE Sonne. Tolkien was influenced by this tradition when he associated the Sun with the Maia Arien, a Sun maiden who carries the Sun.

The Moon is grammatically masculine in German (I don't know about other Germanic languages), Tolkien associates him with Tilion, a male Maia. And the Man in the Moon! In my childhood, the moon was always depicted with a male face.

In Roman languages, it's la lune and le soleil, in the tradition of male Sun gods (Helios, Apollo, Sol Invictus) and female Moon goddesses (Selene, Luna).

But I like to think that these celestial bodies incorporate BOTH genders, they're simply too significant, too large, too far away for such limiting concepts we humans use.

And about not liking the energy of the sun - well, there's nothing wrong with that. There are day active people who enjoy lots of sunlight, and others who thrive at night and get a headache from too much sun. I'm a night owl and it took me years to understand and appreciate the solar, radiant, extrovert energy that is the source of all life. I, too, feel much closer to the reflected, changing, cool lunar energy. Just like I prefer cool colours to warm ones.

Try to think of the sunlight not only as something demanding action, overly bright and tiring. The Sun is warmth and light - warmth of love and encouragement, light of understanding and consciousness. (I always associate my mother with the Sun - she's such a sunny character, and I remember when I was a child, her friends used to sing Good Day Sunshine when my mother came in. I'm so different from her and for years felt that I stood in her shadow. So I had my own personal journey with the Sun. I remember doing a Nina Lee Braden exercise when I was on her mailing list - that's when I first noticed how much I associate the Sun with "what I am not"...)

We always need both, light and darkness, action and non-action. It's a cliche but so true.