I got to thinking about Le Bateleur's journey last night. In that story, I feel that Le Empereur and Le Pape are both Masters that Le Bateleur meets, from whom he learns important lessons. I make sense of his journey by thinking of those first few cards as his teachers.
I then looked to numerology to understand what each of these two are Masters of.
The Empereur is a Master of Stability and Process. To my understanding, the number 4 is about structure and order and things becomming concrete in the material world - stability. But stability without process leads to stuckness and stagnation. I think of this as the challenge of the number 4. I think each number contains a challenge, or lesson. The Empereur is sat almost on the edge of his seat, I think this is a big clue! He kind of reminds me of an Oak tree - his roots are firmly grounded in the earth, he is majestic and powerful just like the tree. But, he is working with flow and process, just like that solid Oak whose branches sway in harmony with the wind.
Le Pape is a Master of Freedom and Responsibility. The number 5 is the number of man/woman, and our human experience is all about free will isn't it? The number 5 loves to be free and adventurous and to communicate. But without discipline and a sense of responsibility the number 5 acheives very little, and is capeable of damaging the world and others. It reminds me of the Pagan law "do what you will but harm none" (I'm not a pagan, but that law has always seemed very wise to me).
I am not intimidated by these two characters in there upright positions. They teach me about becoming aware of my own power, and give me guidance on how to use it wisely.
However, when reversed, I would feel very intimated. Reversed, the powerful yet compassionate ruler, the Empereur, becomes a power crazed dictator. The wise guide, Le Pape, becomes a dangerous Spiritual Guru.