Thread: Horary DIY
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Preliminary Comments

Thanks for the post, Idyll.

Before I go into any real detail I need to check the chart with you. I'm fairly sure you set the chart for 13 February 2012 and the remaining details are as given in your post above.

When I cast a chart for that date and the time and place given by you in the post above, I get the house positions that you describe and also with the Moon still in the fifth house, I'm sure it's not a day later (or even earlier). However can you please confirm that for me, as I don't want to do a reading based on an erroneous chart. I've attached a copy so you can double check that all is well.

Yes it has some significance that both significators are in the fith but probably no more than you are interested in a romance and M is the potential 'object' of your affections. However that does mean that the chart describes the situation (at least in so far as it conforms with what the subject of the question).

If the chart I cast is correct:

You are right, your significator is the Moon in the fifth House.

You are right, M's significator is Saturn also in the House

For the essential dignities you do use the table on almuten of the points, so again you are right.

Your score for Saturn's essential dignities is correct (4+3=7) M is very attractive (in terms of this question)

Your score for the Moon is not quite right, and this is due to Morinus giving an incomplete account in it's table. Morinus does not really handle the essential debilities of Detriment and Fall in any explicit manner. In this case The Moon is in Scorpio, the opposite sign to it's exaltation in Taurus. Thus the Moon is in Fall. Now that scores -4 (detriment would be -5 as it's the opposite sign to the planet's rulership - for the Moon that is Capricorn).

It could still be peregrine but to ensure it is so, Morinus forces you to check the table for any planet, in which the Moon has dignity. In this case those are Mars (5+3), Venus (2) and the Sun (1) as there is no planet that is exalted in Scorpio) there is no planet that scores 4. For each of these three planets, we need to check whether any one of them is in a dignity of the Moon. To do this you check to see if there's any score for these planets in the Moon's column. There is no score for Mars or Venus but there is a score for the Sun - 1 - What we have here is a mutual reception - the Sun and Moon are in one of each other's dignities . In this case a mutual reception by Face and that is very weak. Indeed the only thing it adds to the Moon is that it stops it being peregrine.

So the Moon's final score is -4 (in Fall) + 1 (mutual reception by Face) = -3. All that has done is to make the Moon slightly better off than your estimate but it's not really going to have a major influence here. The Moon is weak in essential dignity.

To me this calculation is a pain - other programs, such as Solar Fire, automatically detect mutual receptions and automatically score Detriment or Fall. So I think I might well email the authors of Morinus to see if that can be remedied. As I wouldn't particularly advise you to go out and spend a lot of $$$$$ on an expensive program you can use the table in Skyscript to check for Detriment and Fall. Even so, that will not automatically show mutual receptions.

There is no general need to look at the planets which rule the significators, though Mars for you and Venus for her aptly describes the situation of the question.

For the accidental dignities, most programs are a pain. Only Janus seems to do an automatic calculation. So you are again confined to using the table on Skyscript

The following article contains both tables together with an excellent summary of the essential dignities

For Accidental dignities the following (in order) are worth considering as a beginner:

House placement - both planets are in the fifth house (a succeedent house and one that trines the ascendant) and both score +3

Retrograde or Direct - Saturn is retrograde (-5) whereas the Moon is direct (normally this scores +5 but as the Moon cannot be retrograde I don't bother adding it into the score)

Close Aspects from benefics or malefics - Lilly uses only partile aspects here but the scoring allows you to give weaker aspects a score. However in this case there are no such aspects.

Later on you can add in the other accidental dignities due to the Sun/planet phase cycle, of these being combust or under the beams is perhaps the easiest to use because it signifies a difficulty in seeing and being seen.

You did very well in identifying the significators and their essential dignities. You've rightly identified that there's no applying aspect between Moon and Saturn.

We are left then with the following issues the first two of which are easily dealt with:

Is there any connection through translation or collection of light. The answer is no because the Moon is the fastest planet. so no other planet can aspect Saturn and then catch up with the Moon. Also Saturn is the slowest planet so no other planet will be aspected by the Moon and then wait for Saturn. In this case Saturn is retrograde so it's moving away from the Moon anyway.

Is there any connection between Moon and Saturn through antisica - No as both are in the same sign.

That leaves the issue you mentioned at the end of your post, can we use Venus and Sun as additional significators. Now if you had said stable romantic relationship, then I would answer yes - but you rather diluted your question by saying:

Originally Posted by Idyll
By relationship in this circumstance I mean any kind of relationship that is stable and consistent, whether it be one of friendship or one that is more romantic. It could even be a friendship where we only meet up for coffee once a month to catch up.. as long as it's predictable/consistent and there is no longer a question if we are or are not a part of each other's lifes.
This relationship includes just being friends and I don't think the use of Sun and Venus is intended for 'friendships'. So you need to be clear in your intention - are you looking for romance (in which case we can try the additional significators) or are you looking for friendship (in which case they are not used). You have to be brutally honest with yourself here - if 'friendship' is simply to be near someone you have strong romantic desire for then we can use the additions. But a no answer means that you can't have a simple relationship of friendship (i.e. with no romantic feelings on your part).

Assuming the chart is correct and it's definitely romance that you are interested in, then I can go ahead and read for those additional significators.

Either way I'll do a summary of the reading for the chart, assuming it is correct.
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