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Michael finally "saw" it as well, and made an image with the monkey upright -



He writes
Quote:
Now that I see it, I suspect that others are probably seeing the same face that you are. It's *much* better than the one I saw -- both in terms of features (which are always suspect in such a degraded image) and composition, the arrangement of monkey's face, hat, and hand in relation to the Magician. IMO these compositional features are far more convincing than the details, although the details here seem pretty good too.
I think Michael's remarks about the "compositional" features are spot on. The overall balance of the face-turban makes it IMO an inescapable interpretation. As for the "details", I do think that the angle of the face looks better as the designer made it than in the "upright" posture, but this is to be expected as that is how he worked.

Frankly, I'm blown away by this discovery. All these years of a BLOB on the back of the Cary Sheet Magician, and now we have a real live monkey.

(BTW, the reason Michael isn't here for himself is because he's lost his code or his screen name, and can't sign in).

Ross
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Now the question is...

How OLD is that monkey???

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Quote:
Originally Posted by le pendu
how's this?
THank you!!!!!! I SEE the monkey!!!!

Did you do that on your iPhone?
Top   #143
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well I see the monkey slightly differently, with the dark shaded area on the right of the turban also being part of the turban, and the feather being above it. But this is splitting hairs!

Thank you Ross, I have Graphic Converter for a Mac and I'm still at the stage of playing with it but what you have said makes sense so I'll give it a go later.
Top   #144
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Now I see the monkey too! The face I had been seeing before was actually the wide part of what may be a feather. I like Robert's colouring in of the monkey showing the paw, and turban (you didn't colour the feather?). Actually, it would be really really cool if someone would take this card (in fact all the cards) and make clean line drawing of what they THINK is actually in this card.

There is an awful lot in this card which looks just like the Children of Luna thing. I am very intrigued on the Children of Luna thing, that there is a banner behind the bateleur which shows tumbling and sword swallowing -- at the moment he is doing his cup and ball trick - the banner shows the rest of the kind of stuff he can do!

I have seen these guys are all over Europe. In France, and Berlin, I have had conversations with these sword swallowers and flame throwers, they come from a long lineage. I had a long train ride in France one summer with a person who told me he was a "saltimbanque", and he explained that he did flame throwing and swallowing swords. He said he had just gotten out of prison and was going home to see his mother. LOL.

The French wikipedia article says:
The word saltimbanque comes from three italian words, "saltare in banco" - to jump onto a bench. This name, which was first applied to jumpers, was extended next to bateleurs or performers of tours de force (feats of skill/strength), and finally, by assimilation, to all those who abuse public credulity.
Quote:
Le mot saltimbanque vient de trois mots italiens, "saltare in banco", sauter sur un banc.
Cette dénomination, qui s'appliqua d'abord aux sauteurs, s'étendit ensuite aux bateleurs ou faiseurs de tours de force, et enfin, par assimilation, à tous ceux qui abusaient de la crédulité publique.


Hence... my next question -- is that long narrow table we see in the Carey sheet and in the Visconti card, perhaps.... a bank/bench... and the next next question - is what is the relationship between bench and bank, and are we changing money here?
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I think we've had the "mountebank" discussion before somewhere here, but the general conclusion I think was that of a circus barker...

to Mount the Bench and call.. "Step right up, Step right up"..

But.. again.. it's a Buyer Beware type word, he's there to separate you from your money.
Top   #146
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Hi Moonbow,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbow*
well I see the monkey slightly differently, with the dark shaded area on the right of the turban also being part of the turban, and the feather being above it. But this is splitting hairs!

Thank you Ross, I have Graphic Converter for a Mac and I'm still at the stage of playing with it but what you have said makes sense so I'll give it a go later.
Sorry I couldn't receive your private message - there are technical problems. Please write me privately instead.

Thanks!

Ross
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... :-)

I see a very small man's face with beard between the upper and the lower monkey, indeed the hair of the man is formed by the left and right eye of the upper monkey. The man is looking downward.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le pendu
I think we've had the "mountebank" discussion before somewhere here, but the general conclusion I think was that of a circus barker...

to Mount the Bench and call.. "Step right up, Step right up"..

But.. again.. it's a Buyer Beware type word, he's there to separate you from your money.
Mountebank? That is an English term. Do you think it is related to saltimbanque?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemaiden
Mountebank? That is an English term. Do you think it is related to saltimbanque?
Oh! Maybe not! I assumed it, but don't know.

EDIT

Um... reading this that you quote:
"The word saltimbanque comes from three italian words, "saltare in banco" - to jump onto a bench. This name, which was first applied to jumpers, was extended next to bateleurs or performers of tours de force (feats of skill/strength), and finally, by assimilation, to all those who abuse public credulity."

I'd say.. YES. They mean exactly the same thing, and come from the same thing.. Jump on the Bench... and again.. "those who abuse public credulity".

I always struggle with a word for an English word for Bateleur.. and really, I think Mountebank is actually pretty perfect.
Top   #150


 


 


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