The Sindibad Tarocchi story

Huck

Framed Story: The Sindibad Tarocchi story

Well,

.. it isn't a Tarocchi story, cause it existed, when playing cards were not known in Europe ...
nonetheless, it uses a sort of Tarocchi scheme: 21 elements plus an additional 22th; the 21 elements sorted in 7x3-scheme according the days of a week.

So, it's interesting enough to be known ...

Well, actually it's rather well known, it's the "7 sages of Rome" story ...

An emperor sends his son to the 7 teachers for education (well, the seven artes liberalis) and it takes 7 years till he comes back. Everybody has hoped, that he had learned something, but, when he comes ... nothing. This son even can't speak. What a disappointment, this wasn't expected.
The new wife of the king, with the promise that she might solve the problem, arranges to be alone with the son. Then, instead any attempt to help him, she tries to seduce him. But the young guy might have given the impression, that he was stupid, but he wasn't and he escaped this problem. Now the Queen made a big lamento, that this guy had attempted to rape her and urges the king to kill this son, who would attempt to steal his throne. But then the first wise man appears (as representative of the artes) and gives a story as an argument, why the king shouldn't do it today. And at the next day the Queen repeats with another story her urge for the killing sentence. And then the next wise man appears and tells, why the king shouldn't do it today. And this repeats, after each of the 7 wise men has told a story against one of the 7 accusation stories of the queen. 14 stories are then ready and then at the 8th day the boy starts to talk and this becomes the 15th story and after this everything is okay ...

Well, the Western version knew only 15 stories, but the Eastern version, more talkative, has two stories for each wise men and then you have 15 + 7 = 22 stories, and then ... then the story has the Tarocchi scheme.

One of the opinions to the origin of the story thinks, that it was made by Sindibad, a wise man c. 100 BC in India.

In the next passage the difference between Eastern and Western version is told:

And some ideas about Sindibad and the king:

And the date of the oldest text:

It's far spread and there different versions ...

All texts from here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=OnRKc1NC8qMC

There's a lot of material to this object in this web, even a "Society of the Seven Sages" ...
http://myweb.dal.ca/hrunte/seven_sages.html

This is a nice variant (full text):
http://www.dantesheart.com/Issue2/SevenSagesContents.html

The wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wise_Masters

What I didn't found, was a translated version of one of the Eastern variants with 22 stories. Then the wise men should be "viziers".

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This Sindibad is NOT Sindibad, the sailor ...

.. and Sindibad the sailor isn't Sindibad the porter, but Sindibad the sailor tells Sindibad the porter his stories and these stories are of the quality, that one shouldn't believe everything.

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Patriach Joseph in the bible (maybe 900 BC):
The wife of Potiphar attempts to seduce him. Joseph goes too prison.
Then Joseph interprets the 7 good years and the 7 bad years.

Theseus legend (at least 500 BC):
Theseus comes to his father after grown up at a foreign court. The new wife of his father, Medea, attempts to poison him.
Athen has to pay tribute to Creta. Theseus as one of 7 young men and 7 girls travels to Creta.
Phaedra, the wife of Theseus, accuses Hippolytus, his son (after Hippolytus refused her). Theseus curses his son, who dies in a chariot accident.

I saw voices with the opinion, that the story typus is hellenistic and already from 500 BC.

Huck

I finally found an Eastern translated version:

It seems complicated, it's not easy to understand, how and if it was presented in 22 stories.

http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/Sindibad_Main.htm

Ross G Caldwell

Huck said:
I saw voices with the opinion, that the story typus is hellenistic and already from 500 BC.

It's much older than that. The "Seven Sages" are called Apkallû in Babylonian writings, and Abgal in Sumerian. They were sent by Ea/Enki to teach mankind all the civilizing arts, before the Flood.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yC...g#v=onepage&q=+apkallu +"seven sages"&f=false

Edited to add:

"The History of Sindban and the Seven Wise Masters", a translation of oldest Syriac manuscript (10th century), by Hermann Gollancz, in Folk-Lore v. 8, no. 1 (March, 1897), pp. 99-130.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Folk-...even_Wise_Masters,_Translated_from_the_Syriac

Huck

Ross G Caldwell said:
It's much older than that. The "Seven Sages" are called Apkallû in Babylonian writings, and Abgal in Sumerian. They were sent by Ea/Enki to teach mankind all the civilizing arts, before the Flood.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yC...g#v=onepage&q=+apkallu +"seven sages"&f=false

hi Ross,

Somehow the researchers to this object define their topic NOT generally as "seven sages", but "seven sages" inside this story with Emperor or King, accusing wife of the king and an accused silent young men after education. They accept variants "as belonging to the topic" (for instance Sindibad as teacher, or instead of Sindibad the seven sages as teachers; or very much different stories especially between Eastern and Western variations), but not all types of variants.

Huck

Alright, I took a look at an Eastern version ...
... this Sindibad version, as presented at ..

Overview (Content)
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/bosTOC.pdf
(only the upper part belongs to the full Sindibad version)

start page
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/Sindibad_Main.htm

Book of Sindibad ... with commentary
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/bos1.pdf

other Eastern Version (with less stories)
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/bos2.pdf

*********************************************

My own analyses say, that it uses the scheme of the Sepher Yetzirah called
"32 Ways of Wisdom"

The 32 Ways:

The "32 Ways" are parted in several groups:

First:
22 letters + 10 Sephiroth (numbers 1-10) = totally 32 Elements

Then the 2 main groups have sub-elements:

22 letters
-----------

12 simple letters - related to 12 zodiac signs
7 double letters (on of these is considered as special, so it's the "center-element" and the group has to be understood as 1+6) - related to 5 planets + Sun + Moon
3 mothers - related to the elements fire, water and air

10 Sephiroth
------------

3 top-elements (1-3)
6 middle-elements (4-9)
1 bottom element (10)

The 32 elements are in their mathematical background generated by the binary code "2^6" with 64 elements in the manner, as they are used in the Chinese I-Ching with its "64 hexagrams".
Transforming the 64 elements to 32 elements demands, that they are presented as pairs in a complementary manner, so ...

111111 is paired with 000000
111110 is paired with 000001
111100 is paired with 000011
etc.

and finally you have 32 pairs made from 64 elements.
Further explanations to the comparison of I-Ching-hexagrams to Spher-Yetzirah "Ways of wisdom" at ...
http://trionfi.com/tarot/new-themes/sepher-yetzirah/

Then you have here the content of the Sindibad book:

Introduction
Sindibâd: Story of the Old Fox and the Monkey
Sindibâd: Story of the Camel, the Wolf, the Fox, and the Pumpkin
Sindibâd: Story of the King of Kashmir and the Elephant

First Vazîr: Story of the King of the Monkeys
The First Vazîr:
Story of the Confectioner, his Wife, and the Parrot
Story of the Officer, his Mistress, his Servant, and the Woman’s Husband

The Damsel:
Story of the Washerman and his Son
The Second Vazîr:
Story of the Two Partridges
Story of the Old Man who sent his Young Wife to the Market to buy Rice

The Damsel:
Story of the Prince and the Ghûl
The Third Vazîr:
Story of the Snake and the Cat
Story of the Libertine Husband

The Damsel:
Story of the Monkey and the Boar
The Fourth Vazîr:
Story of the Bathkeeper
Story of the Go-between and the She-dog

The Damsel:
Lacuna in Ms. (Story of the Lady Whose Hair was Cut Off)
The Fifth Vazîr:
Story of the Pretended Widow
Story of the Woman and Her Father-in-law

The Damsel:
Story of the Robber, the Lion, and the Monkey
The Sixth Vazîr:
Story of the Peri and the Devotee
Story of the Concealed Robe

The Damsel:
Story of the Prince who went to Hunt
The Seventh Vazîr:
Story of the King and the Virtuous Wife
Story of the Man Who Compiled a Book on the Wiles of Women

The Prince:
Story of the Poisoned Guests
Story of the Careless Mother
Story of the Infant in the Cradle
Story of the Stolen Purse and the Child of Five Years
Story of the Sandal-wood Merchant and the Advice of the Blind Old Man
Story of the King’s Daughter and Her Liberators

Conclusion

(content as given at http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/bosTOC.pdf)

Now ... analyzing with a look at the usual European variant of the "7 sages" story:

usual European variant, totally 15 stories:

1 Meta story (Frame)
6 attacking stories by the woman ("6 nights")
7 defending stories by seven sages ("7 days")
1 clearing story by the son ("8th day")
(but the woman has 7 attacks, the first is part of the meta-story)

... the Sindibad-story has a more complex scheme.

usual European variant, totally 15 stories:

1 Meta story (Frame)
3 teaching stories by Sindibad, who has problems with his pupil
6 attacking stories by the woman ("6 nights")
15 defending stories by the seen sages (the first sage has 3 instead of 2 stories)
6 clearing stories
(but the woman has 7 attacks, the first is part of the meta-story)

"15" and "31" are not the right number, it should be "16" and "32". Naturally one should conclude, that the frame-story is evaluated as "begin" and "end" and so the real number would be 16 and 32 also under this condition, but it seems, that the first attack of the woman is counted as a "full story of the system".
Without this female attack ... no story, the 7 sages wouldn't know, what to talk about. So it's a deciding element.

Taking the paradise story: without Eva taking the apple no heroes in this dark world.

So we have the garden (32 elements), that is 1 (the meta story) and then we get the negative element (the woman) and that's 2 (the even sages story is rather written according a "male system").
The latter is the key element to open up the presentation of 21 stories of juristic "attack" and "defense", which are told by the damsel (6 attacks) and the sages (15 defenses) around a desired or avoided death sentence for the son of the king.

This element is embedded in teaching stories of the wise Sindibad (3 stories at begin) and 6 stories o the son, which form the the final sequence. Summa summarum these are 30 stories.

A fine detail is developed in the teaching story of Sindibad: He attempts 6 long years to put any higher insight in the boy and only recognizes, that there should be an astrological problem. Then he tells his 3 teaching stories and promises, that he will give a very fine teaching and that this will work in his opinion - in 6 months. Totally this makes 6 1/2 years, so a number precisely between 6 (attacks) and 7 (defenses). A competing Syriac text, so said in the analyzing text ...
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Clouston/bos1.pdf
... at page 11, speaks - rather interesting - of "six months and 2 hours" for his second period.

One may ask why. "2 hours" are 1/6 of a day (not counting the night hours), and so the teaching time becomes 6 years, 6 months and 1/6 day, and we have 3 sixes forming the model. Further we have, that 6 years, 6 months and 1/6 day are more near to 7 (defense arguments) and less near to 6 (attack arguments), so that just this "2 additional teaching hours" make the decision between life and death for the young men.
Sindibad agrees in his argumentation, that the boy had learned nothing in 6 years (that was a matter of "bad horoscope". But for the six months he announces, that the boy would learn as much as he could reach otherwise in "30 years". 6 months are 1/60 of 30 years ... again there is the intention to keep the number 6 as a story element.

Well, and there is another nice passage with Master Sindibad speaking ...

"I will wait to see whether the two dice of heaven will turn up
three sixes or three aces."

... and Sindibad speaks it inside this passage ...

“Be not cast down,” said he to the prince, “at the caprice of
fortune, but to-morrow, when you appear before the king, whatever questions you
may be asked, answer nothing. Bear up for this week; the next, your affairs will
become prosperous. If but a word escape your lips, your life and head will be
endangered. Lo! I hasten to conceal myself, and no one shall see me for one week,
for my life is in peril. I will wait to see whether the two dice of heaven will turn up
three sixes or three aces.”
[/quotes]

So speaks Master Sindibad and disappears (his life is in peril), as promised, for one week, that is, the whole inner part of the book, which consists of a nearly always silent boy, a more talkative women or 7 more talkative old men and an always confused, but also always curious emperor, takes place without him: One attack without story, 6 attacks with story and 15 defense stories, totally 22 activities.
Well, the 22 letters relate to the alphabet, and for speaking and for the tongue and we may jump to the very last scenes of the whole book, when the woman is insightful about her bad deeds and then she offers - her tongue.

“Now have I no choice therein; not once, but a hundred times, have I done it. Order that they tear out my lily-tongue, if thy slave (herself) has been free and bold.”

Click to expand...

... but returning to ... "I will wait to see whether the two dice of heaven will turn up
three sixes or three aces." ... what is Sindibad talking about? "Two dice of heaven" is taken, cause the results of two dice (21 possibilities) mirror (partly) the scheme, by which the "32 ways of wisdom" are build (inside the binary scheme), so they are "from heaven". "Three sixes and three Aces can - naturally - only show up, when you use 3 dice. Three dices lead to "Grand Hazard" ... I told recently about it in this thread ...

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=161451

.. and three dice have "20 results", perhaps also called "20 figure", and these are parted in two groups: 6 Triple numbers 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3, 4-4-4, 5-5-5, 6-6-6 and 14 dice results, as there are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 (the results 3 and 18 are triple numbers)
... as you detect them also at the pictures. 6-6-6 is very good (Take all and everything) and 1-1-1 is usually very bad.

The structure of 6 attacks and 14 defenses (as given in this book) might be interpreted as Hazard (cause its a 14-6-scheme), but this is destroyed by the 15th defense story, which stands at the begin: "Story of the King of the Monkeys" ... the King of the Monkeys is a Lion, and the Lion sees something, which disturbs him, but nobody will listen to him. So the lion gives up his job as king. A monkey is elected as new king. First burns the city, and then the monkeys are hunted, cause the city needs monkey fat to cure the elephants, which are burnt by the fire.

To understand the problem of the Monkey-king, one likely has to go back to the first story of Sindibad, in which he tells, how a Monkey desired to become king, but is actually trapped by an old fox, who wishes to have a fish. The Elephant you find likely in Sindibad's third story, where the elephant presents the pupil, who didn't learn cause a bad horoscope.

... .-) ... But, anyhow, a funny rather intensive story. This is interesting stuff ...

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But ... I'm not so much interested to go in detail of this object, actually I'm momentary interested to research a little bit about "European Frame stories", which combine a collection of stories with a frame story, and often enough, the frame contains a mathematical concept. By this there is a similarity given between "Frame stories collecions", lot books an playing card deck models, as for instance there is given the early Trionfi decks and the later Tarocchi decks.
If we take for instance the Boiardo Tarocchi poem and also the Sola-Busca-Tarocchi ... they use historic figures (usually connected to very specific hero stories, at least for Court cards and Trumps) and the difference from this arrangement to a Frame stories presentation isn't a big one.

If I take for instance the 21 women in the "femmes fortes" representation of Piere le Moyne ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=162795
... that are 20 or 21 women biographies in a definite mathematical frame: 5 Jews, 5 Barbars, 5 Romans, 5 Christians ... that's a sorted collection.