Newbie's questions to lenormand readers

frelkins

LOL! :D I don't mean to be rude at all, so please forgive me if I offer my polite disagreement with much of what has been said here. ;)

Of course, to the German readers, German is the most popular and "true" style. However many French readers will strongly disagree. So to say the German is more popular is simply to have chosen a side already. ;)

It's just that the French-style readers write in, you guessed it, French and not English. My observation is that means most of the tarot crowd that has hopped to Lenormand in the current fad can't read them and doesn't know about them, outside of Steinbach.

I really don't mean sound insulting. I would just like to say as directly as possible that the French readers have a strong view on this question! :D And they are under-represented in this discussion because the don't write in English nor have most been translated into English. They seem to feel the differences between their style and the German are not "minor." :)

There are several popular Lenormand teachers of the old French style that have written many books or have nice blogs - but I don't see them mentioned in any of the posts here.

So for example most tarotists new to Lenormand will not have read Colette Silvestre etc. or sometimes even know who she is. :)

Further, I see a neglect of the other regional schools here. For example, the Russian, the Dutch-Belgian (there are more Dutch-Belgian readers than AndyBC and he doesn't speak for all of them, I'm sure ;) ), the Romanian & the Portuguese/Brazilian.

In terms of popularity, Lenormand is enormous in Russia right now - but again I don't think any AT people read Russian, so they don't know about it and don't really have access to that body of style. :) If you search here there are some older posts that discuss some Russian meanings.

Brazil may fare a bit better because Mary has been there and knows some of the readers; likewise we see some Brazilians here occasionally. The Brazilian style, with its inclusion of saints & candomble influences, is certainly not just a minor variation of the German. ;)

Also Brazil is a huge country & Lenormand is popular there - so I actually doubt the German style is actually most prevalent now in truth. In a global tally, that might fall to Russia or Brazil due to the mega-numbers of readers in those countries, who people here don't know about due to the language barrier. :D

I don't think anyone here knows much about the Romanian style at all, partially because its main English-speaking practitioner is for some reason just not well-liked as a person, so that style is ignored. Pity.

There actually was also a British style as documented in a famous book of English cartomancy from earlier in the 20th century. Those who would reject it with vehemence appear to be largely German readers, the very ones who are often so eager to erase the other schools, much to the annoyance of many of the followers of those other schools! :)

But there's no need to get wrapped around an axle with this stuff, right? We're just all friends here who like cards! :D

So again, when you hear talk of "the folk tradition," please always ask "whose folk tradition?" Because there is not just one & those who follow other schools largely believe strongly that their tradition is as important and valid as the German. Why insult them? ;) Why can't we just all get along and acknowledge the variations? Vive la difference, I say! :D

Btw, I consider myself a "German" reader. By which I mean, I can actually read German. And French. ;) I do not however read Russian, but do use Google translate to look at Russian Lenormand forums from time to time. I find Wigzell's history of fortune-telling in Russia to be very useful. ;)

And while Donnaleigh is a lovely person, I will agree with comments above that she is not a classic Lenormand reader, but mixes her own blend of German & French, with a lot of tarot thrown in. I wish her success in developing her own new style. So I'm personally surprised when Donnaleigh is applauded for her blending, but Marcus Katz is not. They are both creating new unique styles and reading "non-traditionally." ;)

And note I love both of these peeps & consider them my friends. They are both nice teachers.

New readers should just find a way that appeals to them and learn that method. Choose one that you like and stick with it. Worry about the other schools later. :) Skip the quarrels and focus on having fun with our friends in the card community; accept and celebrate our diversity! :D

Best wishes.
 

kalliope

Just to clarify, I've made no judgement calls about which schools are most "true." I've even argued recently that I don't think ANY are more true than others. I certainly didn't mean to "insult" any country's tradition! :bugeyed: I apologize if I've given that impression by omitting them.

My statement of popularity is moreso a comment on what is highly visible when browsing online for Lenormand info in English, which you yourself have noticed. I have nothing against the French school, Dutch-Belgian, Russian, Romanian, etc. I'm just less (or not at all) familiar with those, and so the links I provide naturally reflect that fact and trend toward the German-influenced. The neglect is not a judgment, just a fallout of narrow English internet browsing habits. :neutral: I hope I've been clear that I believe the "folk traditions" encompass ALL of them, though.

I interpreted Andy's opinion that the German style is most popular as a statement about sheer numbers, not which is "most correct." But you may be right in thinking he's wrong about the numbers if Brazilian readers are more populous these days. (He also agrees with you that the Brazilian style is not a variation of the German. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.)

In addition, in these threads we've been trying to post helpful links for beginners and simplify the confusing issues for those overwhelmed when just starting out. That's a very different discussion than trying to give a well researched overview of the entire Lenormand tradition from a global perspective. (I know I wouldn't feel qualified to attempt the latter.)

Frelkins, I've gathered from your posts that you're very well read and knowledgeable about many topics here, and you're particularly skilled at tracking down detailed information. (I've enjoyed reading your conversations with Mel in the Marseille forum.) You'll have to forgive the rest of us for not reading quite as widely, especially in other languages (despite Google Translate). ;)

By the way, I'd really love to read some of the blogs you mentioned that are "old French style." Would you care to share a link or two, or a blog title? Many thanks! :D
 

Midnite

No offense, but I would NOT recommend this book to anyone. Nothing has been more confusing in my own studies of Lenormand than this.

Until a really good book gets published in English, greatdane, I'd stick to the aforementioned websites.

I agree that Learning Lenormand would confuse you rather than help you, especially if you're hoping to learn the Lenormand method we've all been talking about, as practiced in its folk tradition. Many of the included exercises would easily lead you off on tangents instead of giving you a strong working knowledge base.

Hmm... ok. I didn't find it too bad. Confusing and random at times, yes, but overall quite helpful for a Lennie newbie like I was. Is it the best book/source on Lenormand? Definitely not. Sorry my suggestion wasn't the method "you guys have been talking about, as practiced in its folk tradition". Just trying to add my two cents is all. })
 

greatdane

lol

OK I get it, really, many don't agree! But it does seem the one thing is when starting to PICK something, stick with it til you at least learn meanings and some combinations and then worry about all these differences. And the more posts I read, it seems the more different systems. And frelkins, моя семья из России or my family is russian, at least on my mother's side. I am not fluent enough to try to work with a russian style, at least unless it's translated to english, but yes, all this talk of form, style is confusing since the title of my thread is a newbie's questions, as in just getting started. I'm sure all can see that when discussing all these philosophies and styles, it then becomes overkill to someone who is still waiting for their deck to arrive and is just starting to get a sense of lenormand. With that said, I DO find all this fascinating, but it's like starting work at uni when you're in grade school. Baby steps. I understand most of you are saying start where you're comfortable though. I think for those of us who ARE really new, it might be helpful to have another thread like history of lenormand, various styles of lenormand, or philosophy of lenormand, etc etc, I'm guessing there are those threads out there, maybe it's time to update them?, because it IS fascinating. It just becomes a bit overwhelming reading people debate styles when I don't even have my deck yet!
 

ann823

Another newbie trying to figure out a place to start.
If the Learning Lenormand is not a helpful book, does anyone know if the free pdf lenormand lesson downloads that used to be on the Tarot Town website are any good or just as confusing as the book? I just looked through my computer and realized I'd saved them but I don't want to use them if they'll make things worse.
 

DownUnderNZer

When I started learning it, the Lenormand, there was only one book in English that I found out about later but didn't order til maybe a few years down the track and definitely nothing on the internet UNLESS you did GOOGLE TRANSLATE.

I didn't really bother too much.

I wouldn't change how I learnt and am glad I did it the way I did it as it formed a "basis" for me to venture out when I was ready to try something more. Two German women taught me and it just so happened that I happened to be at the right place at the right time and ONLY by chance. I wasn't even meant to be a part of their teachings yet I was the only one that was able to pick it up and quickly. :D One was more modern in her way of teaching and had her own thoughts on certain cards and the other was taught from her mother or aunt (generational) but didn't have any children to pass what she knew down to in the line.


What I was looking for , however, was a QUICK METHOD to answer questions and the "traditional way" (GT) wasn't quite it yet it covered all I needed to know about each card, pairing, squares, distance between X and Y and even the past life and the next life only I didn't quite get that far (Karmic/Astral Projection) as I moved countries.

I think as long as the BASIC MEANINGS are down packed that is what forms a BASE or FOUNDATION, I think between the German and French methods there maybe 5 cards that are different in meaning, and I am only going off what I was taught through those women and then later when I got the book by Steinbach. I have never really consulted the internet for meanings or other schools. Never really needed to as I trusted what I understood. When I did "shift" that was the most "trickiest" part and it was "trial" and "error" with new spreads etc.

So, if you want to learn, at least get the basics down of each card if the GT is too big to deal with or the traditional way, and when you answer questions KEEP to the QUESTION or you are just going to find that you go off in all kinds of directions which confuses the situation. Also, I think TWO cards are a good way to get an idea of COMBO meanings, but I still feel the LENORMAND is meant to tell a story so at least 5 cards or more are or is needed.

That is what I think. :)
 

kalliope

Is it the best book/source on Lenormand? Definitely not. Sorry my suggestion wasn't the method "you guys have been talking about, as practiced in its folk tradition". Just trying to add my two cents is all. })

I was only pointing out that it was a bit different in its perspective than the rest of the links & courses I'd recommended in a few threads, that's all. :)
 

Joon

You are flapping, dearie :)

There is more than enough information online to get yourself started, when, as you say, you choose something and stick with it.

Which makes sense to you; which feels most right? Anchor is work. Fox is work. Moon is work. I went with a set of meanings that uses the one that fits best for me.

I just looked at the file I started to collect and compare different basic card meanings. You know what I found? Two meanings; just two. (There may be more, but they didn't show up quickly enough for me to stay interested in the project.)

Do you want to consider one more? Money: Fish or Bear?

I looked at how people explained each of those choices and gave some careful thought as to which would speak to me. Then I found a set of meanings that incorporated those, in a "dictionary" by a blogger whose writing I like.

And I got started. You don't even need cards in your hand to do that much thinking. :)

Find a set of meanings that makes sense for you, for now, as someone else has also suggested. You will add more nuance, and can even change your basic meaning of those cards later, based on experience *when you have experience.*

"You cannot appease the hunger, merely by reading the menu."
 

greatdane

I agree, Joon

I am doing exactly that. I am keeping it simple and am working the way that works best for me to learn. While tarot and lenormand differ, the fact that even though lenormand has more standard meanings, there ARE different systems or meanings people use. Like with tarot, I have to figure out what works for ME. I was just looking for a simple starting point and I have it. Even though I don't have my deck, I have been watching videos, including one's re meanings of cards, two card combinations and some other beginning thoughts. I think I will be just fine! It was just confusing at first to have so much debate about systems thrown in, books that were good that people didn't agree upon (yes, no, yes, no) etc etc. But now I am feeling I have my base, my starting point, I will keep going online and watching videos, trying to see how I SEE combinations, so when my deck comes, I'll be ready to start my official journey :). I agree wholeheartedly with your perspective, Joon!
 

Richard

I agree that Learning Lenormand would confuse you rather than help you, especially if you're hoping to learn the Lenormand method we've all been talking about, as practiced in its folk tradition........
Forgive my simple minded question, but precisely what is "the Lenormand method we've all been talking about?" If I'm not mistaken, this is what GD wants to know, and I have not yet seen a definitive answer. Please, no waffling. :)