Marseilles Pips meanings?

Tindak Bungtod

Many thanks to all you guys.

Since the time I first posed this question as to how to read the Marseilles, I have learned oh so many things from all of you. I've gotten much better with the Marseilles. However, as with every endeavour that involves learning, I believe there is still so much more to learn, it is a lifelong process. Again, many thanks for helping and guiding me.
 

thinbuddha

EnriqueEnriquez said:
As a bodily process, we see how the vine reaches out in the odd cards, and gets stabilized in the even cards. This is, the body expands while active, and finds balance by being passive/receptive.

I clipped this comment from your explanation of the batons pips, but you have similar things to say about the other suits as well. Your explanation of the pips is rather elegant, in a way, but it still seems to require memorizing meanings for cards if I am reading it right.

Without memorized card meanings, you end up with a collection of 10 cards per suit that are binary in nature/meaning: they are either active or receptive. How does one differentiate the meaning between any two active cups, or any two receptive swords without memorized meanings?
 

stella01904

thinbuddha said:
Without memorized card meanings, you end up with a collection of 10 cards per suit that are binary in nature/meaning: they are either active or receptive. How does one differentiate the meaning between any two active cups, or any two receptive swords without memorized meanings?
Not attempting to speak for EE here, but I think the "memorised meanings" are the numerological keys, not card meanings. 1-10 repeats throughout the deck, with different inflections.

For instance, you know that II is gestation, accumulation, a receptive state in preparation for action. You know that Swords are intellect. So the II Epee might be a time of gathering information, just paying attention and not making concrete plans just yet. Then you can take it further and get meaning from the appearance of the flower, the color, the number of petals, whatever you want.
But you don't memorise card meanings or look them up in a book or any of that.
 

EnriqueEnriquez

thinbuddha said:
Without memorized card meanings, you end up with a collection of 10 cards per suit that are binary in nature/meaning: they are either active or receptive. How does one differentiate the meaning between any two active cups, or any two receptive swords without memorized meanings?

Hello Thinbuddha,

Sorry for not replying this earlier, but I haven’t seen this thread in a long while.

As Stella pointed out, there is no need for memorization since I treat the pips just as I treat the trumps: I observe the process depicted in the card and find an analogy between this process and a person’s situation. In other words, I look at what is happening in the card, as an energetic imprint, that then gets contextualized by the card’s position in the series, and by the suit.

Lets use an example, but before that, there is something very important I need to point out. Based on what I have been taught, on what I have seen, and on what I have read, the pips can be seen as ATTRIBUTIONS of the majors. It is useful not to mix the whole deck together, but keep majors and minors separated. A pip card will be use to clarify the message coming from a major.

Suppose we have The Fool. There are many meanings we can assign to the Fool, but I am only concerned about the person I am reading the cards for, so, for me the cards points out that this person, my client, is walking towards something. I will acknowledge the fact that my client got the Fool, and no other card, by assuming that this motion forward may not be extent of risks. My client may be walking too happily into something without knowing what it is. His motions can be reckless, or perhaps, necessary even if he is misunderstood by others. Very visual, very simple.

Now, we may want to know what is the Fool getting into. Where is he going? It is for this reason that we draw a pip card to expand this message. We get the Six of Cups. Just as we did with the Fool, lets forget for a second about all the meanings, numerology, astral planes, etc. The Six of Cups depicts six elements arranged into a very particular scene: three cups stand in front of other three, while a very straight floral element stands in between them, separating them. There is order, symmetry, and some sort of stiffness in the scene. There are many things that feel like this image: a gathering of two teams, the beginning of a party in which half of the people doesn’t know the other half, a meeting in which the forces are balanced, a stand-off...

So, the Fool is walking towards the Six of Cups. (It may remember me of Italo Calvino and his Castle of Crossed destinies, so I could see this scene as a drunk man walking into a posh party. But that may be too literal). The sequence is pointing out that my client is walking towards a situation that is totally balanced, stagnated even, and he is going to affect it by breaking out that stillness. This is confirmed because the next card in the Cups series would be the Seven of Cups, in which these six cups will be rearranged to embrace a seventh cup that will come to mediate in between the other six. The suit also gives me an indication: cups are linked to emotions. The fact that my client got the Fool may indicate that he doesn’t knows what he is getting into, but the fact that the Six of Cups is a receptive card reassures me: my client seems to be ready to irrupt into a emotional landscape to revitalize it. The Fool is going to become that seventh cup.

Since the sequence is telling me that my client may be about to walk into a charged emotional situation to play a role as a mediator, the rest of the reading will be directed to understand the nature of this situation, and the role he, embracing the Fool, may play in it. Does he knows what is he getting into? Is he ready for it? It is OK to irrupt in this situation just like this? Etc...

This is, briefly, the way I would work with the pips as images, not just numbers.

I hope it helps,

All the best,

EE
 

eugim

A: Pips composition:

1-Pips are compound by Honours and Numerals
-Honours named are also by a couple so King and Queen,a Valet and a Cavalier.
Thus 2+1+1
-Numerals:
Ace unnumbered + the others 9 numbered / So 1+1= 2

B: Pips meaning :
1-Honours named not numbered / Someone that exist but physically not necessarily here.
2-Numerals numbered not named / Someone that is here on a physical sense not related now to his archetypical origin. (The Divine Origin Idea World )
-Here we have an odd discovery.
DENIERS aren t numbered.
The Valet of this suit has a DENIER below (so buried ) and another at his right hand on a sky level / A Sun may be ?.
3-Thus I purpose a different order :
DENIERS-EPEE-BATON-COUPE

eugim
 

eugim

Well,now about meaning... / So related to my prior post .

1-Honours: Cause
2-Numerals:Effect
3-DENIERS : The Soul as an Agent between both to do the "thang"

eugim

Si Enrique,Miguel por siempre ...
 

SolSionnach

In my reading through this forum I somehow found a link to this thread. There are some REALLY INTERESTING things thrown about in this thread - I'm particularly drawn to kwaw's 'Squaring the Circle' and to Ayumi's methods. Kwaw on kaballah doesn't twist my knickers :bugeyed: but that's because I don't do kaballah. Not Marseilles enough for me. :)

Needless to say, I'm printing this out, and going to be studying it thoroughly!
 

kwaw

Another method based on ascending and descending ranks:

22x10-1.jpg


Cards are associated with planetary and tree of life spheres on the rows; and with one of the 22 atout on the columns. The vertical attributes may vary according to how you order the signs and where you place the fool and the justice/fortitude switch. In the above for example the 6 of batons is aligned with the row of Sun / Tifaret and 5 coins with Mars/Gevurah and both fall under the column of the Maison Dieu. The fool is associated with the 10 swords which are on the row of the primum mobile and keter (ain); the WoF is 10 cups earth/malkuth; fortitude 10 batons primum mobile / keter; World 10 coins earth/malkuth, etc.
 

thinbuddha

EnriqueEnriquez said:
Hello Thinbuddha,

Sorry for not replying this earlier, but I haven’t seen this thread in a long while.

And a belated thanks for the explanation, as I don't think I saw it before. You have made me wish that I could wash that Thoth right out of my mind, and approach the pips with a fresh perspective.

-tb
 

mosaica

thinbuddha said:
You have made me wish that I could wash that Thoth right out of my mind, and approach the pips with a fresh perspective.

-tb

LOL :D -- I read this, and my mind substituted "mouth" for "mind": "[EE,] you have made me wish that I could wash the Thoth right out of my mouth." The Thoth made me want to spit, personally. It ruined Golden Dawn decks for me -- including everything RWS -- and led me finally to the Marseille and the poetry of its pips. (With more than a little help from EE. :) )