what is mars squaring saturn?

Oh, I have tons of queries. Too many to list here!
I'm experiencing my first Saturn return and although things have improved a little very recently (as in, this past week) I've had a rough time this past several months leading up to the return.
AquarianGoddess said that my entire generation was born with a Saturn square Pluto and so that is what I'm coming back to now in this Saturn return. However, I'm wondering if my difficulties over the past 8-10 months have been due to other squares or alignments.

I would like to PM you my birth info and if you have time and are willing I would love to know what you can see there. You may post it here if you wish and if it doesn't overshadow Sagitarian's post too much.

Thanks!
Cat

As per Isthmus's suggestion I am posting an update with the information Minderwiz provided me with.

Re: Saturn return - or something else?

Actually both - Your Saturn Return is indeed here - less than half a degree from exact.

Also you natally have Saturn square Pluto (which is a sort of Mars in overdrive) and those two form a tight T Square with Venus in Cardinal signs.

The Saturn return will set off the T square - which is concerned with questions of identity. Saturn square Pluto could be interpreted as a fear of major transformation - it could also mean obsessiveness with survival and it could mean controlled change if you can harness it. Venus opposed to Saturn is your clue to dealing with it - rather than a fear of love you have to be prepared to give yourself unconditionally to the change. It's not necessarily a relationship that is in the offing or undergoing change, though that is perfectly possible but more being prepared to drop 'conditions' or need for proof before being willing to give yourself to something or someone.

Don't know if that fits - Its a quick look and I really should take more time to consider LOL

Minderwiz

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I didn't realize I had a T Square until Minderwiz pointed it out. I read some information on "T Squares in Cardinal signs" to understand this better and I've also tried to decide how this applies to my life and situation. Without getting too deep into the details I can see how a little of it fits with my relationship to my parents.

The main question I still had was this: Do you generally experience the effects of a Saturn return only *after* the planet moves into position, or is it simply experienced "around this time..." ?

Thanks to everyone who has helped me out!
Cat

Hi Royal Cat,

Carol Rushman has some important things to say about Saturn transits and T-squares. Pls give me some time to check out how they could apply to your chart.

The Saturn return and indeed any transit will begin to have an effect before the aspected and will continue to have an effect aferwards. Most Astrologers would probably see a longer build up and a faster tail off, rather than these two phases being equal.

The issue of course is when would you notice an effect. At one level you might notice an effect not long after Saturn returned to your eleventh house but I would have expected you to really become consciously aware over the last three or four months.

If you have been experiencing issues over a period of eight months, whilst the Saturn return will have been making some increasing contribution I would look for other factors.

Over the last eight months you have had a Neptune opposition to the Ascendant, and that would have raised issues of who you are and how you define your identity in the world and the needs of partners against the needs of self. This would be around eight months ago. You have also experienced a Neptune trine to Moon over the first four months or so of this period. It would then dissipate only to return again in June. This would certainly heighten your emotional levels - at worst it would almost be like a feeling of drowning in emotion - although a trine it could simply facilitate feelings and emotions welling up. It could indicate difficulties in pinning your feelings down. At the very least your feelings will be sensitised to those around you and you may find their emotional issues become your issues. Again Transiting Neptune is in your seventh house bringing relationships and partnerships into focus - indeed it will affect all your one to one relationships. Neptune is often said to dissolve all that it touches - whilst this may well be an exaggeration, it is not a very easy transit for relationships.

The Moon is in your eleventh, of friends, associations, hopes and aspirations. Saturn is also in the same house so the Saturn return is coinciding with the Moon/Neptune trine. Saturn rules your seventh House, providing another link between Seventh and Eleventh and another focus on Saturn.

The Neptune/Moon trine will perfect again in September and pass, only for Neptune to turn direct and repeat the aspect for a third time in early December. I would thing that this transit is the most likely Astrological event to affect you over the prolonged period since November last year.

One last point - Your natal Saturn is in the terms of Mars - Mars has some influence over Saturn and the way it is expressed. For the last few months Mars has applied to and is now separating from a conjunction with Uranus. This combination is definitely unsettling - drive and assertion coupled with sudden changes and need to assert independence. What's more it has been in Pisces, a sign modern astrologers link to Neptune.

Thank you!!!

Thanks Minderwiz! I agree that it is most likely the Neptune influences with perhaps some of the Saturn Return influence more recently. Your descriptions were very clear and helpful. I really appreciate the time you have taken to do this for me.

Minderwiz said:

Over the last eight months you have had a Neptune opposition to the Ascendant... (snip)... You have also experienced a Neptune trine to Moon over the first four months or so of this period. It would then dissipate only to return again in June.

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This sounds exactly right for the timing of everything. I've had this 'up and down' feeling where it seems like everything was finally getting better and then 'boom' it hits again!

Minderwiz said:

This would certainly heighten your emotional levels - at worst it would almost be like a feeling of drowning in emotion... (snip)... At the very least your feelings will be sensitised to those around you and you may find their emotional issues become your issues.

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Very true. Drowning in emotion is a perfect description. I've always had a tendency to internalize other people's emotions... sometimes I just feel their pain too acutely. It's almost as if I was a sponge, absorbing their emotions into me. I told you in a PM that I've recently taken a defensive position of withdrawing and hiding myself away from my family and this is really a big part of the reason. I am simply too sensitive right now to their emotions and their pain - I can't deal with it and still take care of myself as well.

Minderwiz said:

The Neptune/Moon trine will perfect again in September and pass, only for Neptune to turn direct and repeat the aspect for a third time in early December.

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Although I'm not looking forward to it one bit (!), I have a little comfort now in knowing what is happening and can perhaps prepare for it a bit next time.

Minderwiz said:

One last point - Your natal Saturn is in the terms of Mars - Mars has some influence over Saturn and the way it is expressed. For the last few months Mars has applied to and is now separating from a conjunction with Uranus. This combination is definitely unsettling - drive and assertion coupled with sudden changes and need to assert independence. What's more it has been in Pisces, a sign modern astrologers link to Neptune.

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Oh my, yes! I've had some very sudden and unsettling changes with my business and coupled with my current family issues (some big surprises and changes there as well) it's been very unnerving.

Once again, I want to say *thanks* for looking into this. I know you've done this sort of thing for others on the forum and I think it's wonderful that Aeclectic has such giving people that contribute so much each day. I appreciate it!!

Cat

One more question...
I'm not familiar with how fast the different planets travel. Is it likely that I would always experience the Neptune/Moon trine every fall (between September and November)?

Just curious.
Thanks!
Cat

Transiting Neptune takes around 165 years to complete a circle of the Zodiac. This particular Aspect will never return in your lifetime - however the next major aspect between the two will be in March / April 2016 when Transiting Neptune squares your natal Moon.

Minderwiz said:

Transiting Neptune takes around 165 years to complete a circle of the Zodiac. This particular Aspect will never return in your lifetime

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Well, that's a relief!! LOL
I've read what it says on astro.com about the Neptune trine Moon aspect and they make it sound quite dreamy and pleasant - the title they give it is "A Poetic Cast." Sounds nice, doesn't it? Well, I guess it's simply due to other parts of my personality that, for me, it doesn't *feel* dreamy and nice... it feels overwhelming and uncomfortable. Astro.com also mentions heightened imagination... but instead of that being in a positive, creative way - I've experienced it as my imagination running overboard and interfering with my ability to rationalize things. Not good.

Thanks again Minderwiz! You really amaze me!

Cat

Hi Royal Cat,

Not sure what I can add to Minderwiz's thoughts, so I have just a few things to add.

According to Rushman, you should have felt Saturn's presence building up ever since he entered Cancer, which was a couple months back I think. She says it becomes 'intense' at 2 degrees approaching (you've already past that), a reprieve when the aspect is exact (now) and a 'whiplash effect' when it separates about 2 degrees.

Your Saturn T-Square in cardinal signs along w/the transiting Mars-Uran conj trining Saturn indicates to me that you are fully capable of taking positive actions to help yourself, although this isn't easy. But you are more likely to *initiate* change w/this placement than a fixed/mutable square. b/c the square involves Venus and Pluto, this transit will bring up issues revolving around relationships, but also power in emotional exchange. Be careful of power struggles and manipulation, esp w/undiscerning transiting Neptune in 7th, and optimistic Jupiter squaring sun in transit.

Your progressed moon is in your 12th house which may heighten any psychic sensitivity on your part. Being in Cancer, it will also place strong emphasis on your emotional needs, as well as making you more protective - Cancer feels safest in a shell. It is a degree away from trining your natal Mercury. Seeking resolution through expressing yourself and your emotional needs clearly can be aided by this aspect.

Also, just a caveat - Minderwiz is far more experienced than I when it comes to astrology. Please take everything I say in the light that I am a novice when it comes to interpreting charts.

But you are getting there Isthmus - there's some good points in your post. I'd attribute the initiative side of the T square to Cardinal signs - Cardinals are initiators - they begin the process of each season. Saturn is a good planet here because it has the initiating nature of Capricorn (the desire to plan, build and construct) and it has the staying power of Aquairus (a fixed sign) - Venus also has staying power (ruling Libra and Taurus) and Pluto of course represents the irrisistable force.