When was Jesus born?

Minderwiz

You are quite right in terms of any factual evidence relating to a birth, that could then be used to erect a natal chart. In a real sense, Jesus the myth was never born. Jesus the person (assuming for the moment that there was such a person,) could have been born on any day over a number of years - cerrtainly a few more years than the period that was quoted earlier in the thread. We have no empiricl evidence of a biblcal style nativity and no empirical evidence of a biblical style crucifixion. Historical references to the latter are clearly hearsay. That doesn't invalidate the gospels at all I tend to treat mythic truth as just as real as empirical evidence.

Yes, I'm sure that many believers would go along with the argument that the heavens were arranged by God and therefore only confirm Jesus divinity to the extent that God (including JC) chose so to do. We will never settle this argument because it is incapable of empirical proof one way or the other.

It's a matter of belief, not a matter of fact.
 

rainwolf

Minderwiz said:
Was Jesus a Pisces? In Jesus' time Pisces was identified with Jupiter by the Romans (Zeus by the Greeks). Jupiter/Zeus is King of the Gods (King of Kings?) and Yes, equinoctial shift would soon take the Vernal equinox into Pisces. Whether or not the real Jesus was a Pisces is beside the point - it is the allegory that counts.
Right over my head with the astrology jargon :)

Did someone think i was christian/baptist/etc? I dont believe in the bible either and i account it as a metaphor or allegory at best just like you.

Nightwing~although the book was fiction (i did know this), there was a little disclaimer in the front that said the story was fiction, but all the facts were true, which was one reason the story was so interesting. Therefore facts like that and tidbits of lady magdeline and such were likely true.

This doesnt really fit but i thought it funny and hypocritical: someone was passing around a mormon magazine-yes magazine, and one of the most....err...odd things in there was this section on the levels of mormon i think. It said what "requirements" you must have to be "admitted" per se into heaven or whatnot. I thought this disturbing that they would make levels and label each other. One requirement was "touched by spiritual occurence" (something like that) and this is one reason i have such a problem with mainstream religions.
 

prudence

Thank you minderwiz

i have never seen this subject so well summarized and explained. Especially the relavance of the numbers of the apostles and the lunar calendar, I knew about lunar calendar and 13 full moons in a year, but I had not heard it in relation to the story of the apostles before. Thank you for this, it has helped me to better understand this subject.
 

Minderwiz

Rainwolf,

I didn't think you were any sort of evangelical christian :)

My comment on Pisces was made because you raised the issue. I don't see anything wrong with reporting the speculation (as you did) and I merely pointed out that in Jesus' time Pisces would be clearly associated with Jupiter. Early Christians adopted the fish as their symbol and this could well be associated with a claim that Jesus was Jupiter - divine and king of kings. I'm not saying that they believed that literally - it was a coded message. Hence my statement that whether he was or was not a piscean by birth, the claim associated him with Jupiter.

As for the 'Astrological jargon' this is an Astrology Forum :) :) :) we're allowed to use it. If you're interested take a look at some of the threads on this forum which deal with the precession of the equinoxes.
 

DollieAnna

dadsnook2000 said:
Where does "Leo" and "compassionate" in the same sentance come from? Dave.

Why do they have to be in the same sentence from "somewhere" to be true?

In my opinion, Leos are compassionate people, (speaking in general without a whole chart), as are other signs.

This discussion seems to be leading that Jesus was born around the time of Leo/Virgo. (IMO) Paradoxx was just giving an opinion in this discussion thread.
 

dadsnook2000

"Leo" and "compassionate"

My statement, Where does "Leo" and "compassionate" in the same sentance come from? Is valid. That is not to say that a particular Leo, or even many Leo's can't be compassionate BUT, thats a BIG BUT, we have to be careful about casually assigning keywords and meanings to a particular sign, house, planet or aspect. Otherwise, we loose the traditional meanings, start to homogenize the meanings, and then we have lost the ability to interpret a chart. Its only when we can see the zillion distinct things that we can hone our ability to synthesize the components.

Otherwise, we end up like some tarot readers who just go by instinct and impressions without regard to what specific cards and specific positions in a spread mean. I know those are "fighting words" but astrology is complex enough without turning it into a guessing game. So, I say again in a modified form, why do you think compassionate should be included in a basic LEO sign meaning? Dave.
 

DollieAnna

That's why I said, without seeing a whole chart...and I said other signs are ompassionate as well.
We will never have a chart for Jesus so we cannot see houses, signs, aspects and so forth, which of course would influence empathy, compassion, sumpathy...all those words..
I just think paradoxx was giving an opinion...he knows alot more about astrology than I do, that's for sure.

edit: I guess Paradoxx will have to speak for himself. I was just giving my opinion.
 

Jeanette

This is a very interesting thread on a few levels! I don't think Jesus' birthday was originally in December, but it's fun to have it there now! I like it coinciding with Pagan Yule celebrations, and other religions' celebrations that happen around the same time.
And as for the "Compassionate" Leo: I am a Leo, and not very compassionate most of the time, although I like that trait in others, lol.
 

Minderwiz

Dave's point on Leo is vald - he is talking SOLELY in connection with the interpretation of Leo', as a component within a chart - it's perfectly possible for someone who is a Sun Sign Leo or a Leo Rising (such as me) to be very compassionate but we don't get that from the Leo component. There are probably six or seven other signs represented in our charts from planetary placements, and possibly two or three others from important points such as the Ascendant or MC.

No traditional or modern interepretation stresses 'compassionate; as a 'Leo' characteristic and as I think as, DollieAnne says we need a whole chart to judge whether or not a person is compassionate.

Too often there's a temptation to sum up someone by Sun Sign alone and this can be misleading, in some cases dreadfully misleading. That's why Dave points to the need to synthesise a great many factors in arriving at a conclusion.
 

dadsnook2000

Critique and the reasons behind it.

Thanks Minderwiz for your comments. My reason for picking up on the Leo attributes was to help foster an appreciation for careful thought and specific expression relative to astrological meanings. We have very many beginners as part of our discussions here, and we have some who have/are progressing to greater understanding of the natal chart -- but yet have to explore and gain solid capabilities in progressions, transits, cyclic and return charts, mid-points and Uranain and Vedic practices, mundane, hoary, medical and predictive studies. There is so much that can be learned. And to learn all of that, we have to build upon the basics.

Contrary to what many think, Sun Sign Astrology is not "sign astrology". The signs have their own meanings -- and the Sun, Moon or other planets "in that sign" have different meanings. This is similar to the "signs are not houses" discussions that we have had from time to time. In order to learn and to prevent misinforming ourselves and others, we need to be quite careful and judicious in what we say and what we accept for our own use.

I know the moderators also care and give much of themselves to help others. It is the old "pay forward" way of giving to others what has been given to us. In that spirit I offer my thoughts. The best to all who pursue this highly rewarding but demanding course of study. Dave.