GT ISSUE: Do people in the sitter's past mean they're gone??

Teheuti

A GT is complex. It really depends on the client's situation and other cards around the couple. If they face each other without an intervening card then directionality can play a role - especially if you use a deck where the Man & Woman can be facing each other or turned away!

If a couple has already broken up and the Man card is in the Woman's future (Woman= Significator), then Man could be:
1) a new person,
2) some other man in the querent's life (boss, co-worker, friend - based on adjacent cards), or
3) the old Significant Other popping up for some reason (calling to get some of his things back or wanting to reconnect?).

Some of the "rules" I hear can be ludicrous, especially when they have nothing to do with the original meaning and intent of the cards.

Padma

MissNine said:
Good resource! I use the combo info daily!

Only thing with this info is the author uses card inserts and I don't. The only ones who would be people for me are the Dog and Rider. Rarely the snake, unless shady cards around snake give me reason to see snake as a woman.

Snake comes up for all kinds of problematic things for me, but rarely as a person. I think your take of only seeing it as a woman when shady cards surround it is a good one...although occasionally it came up with Dog to denote a tricksy woman I knew who had a dog.

I don't use inserts much either, but I do see the Bouquet occasionally as a gal, and Bear is very much a person to me, unless it is with Tower or Fish. With Child or Fox it always seems to indicate a pet dog to me

Actually, this one is hard to call, because it always depends on the placement of the cards around them, the house they are in, and my own intuition. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules with Lennies - it is a mysterious little system, governed by internal rules of its own.

Case in point, the army as a whole government body kept appearing as Snake in recent questions I had. Interesting, as they dress in green, and soldiers often refer to the army as their "mistress"

Plus, when they march, they go in long lines. There was no other woman involved. I think the cards find any way they can to get the message across to you, and you have to be subtle-minded enough to hear what they are saying!

Sharla said:
Also forgot to add if there is no card in the middle of the 2 people cards then this means that they have no connection left as you need a card in the middle to bind them good or bad. So 2 people cards next to each other means a quarrel or separation of some sorts.

Think i added this on my thread also.

This has proven true in my readings - especially since my Man and Lady cards can be back to back if the Man falls after Lady. When they have their backs to each other, with no card in between, it is almost like a refusal to see each other's point of view, like needing to be the one who is right, and both too stubborn to give in!

surpeti

MissNine said:
So if the man is 2 cards left of the Lady (sitter's) card in the same row, is she in HIS future? Seems logical, right?

But he's not in hers?

No, you are reading the sitter's GT, not the man's. You'd have to do a GT for the man as querent to find out what is in his future.

Along with all the other points raised here, I've wondered about the fact that when the Gentleman and Lady are facing toward each other, they are always in the same left-right relationship horizontally. Since the facing directions vary from deck to deck, let's just say for example the Lady faces right and the Man faces left in your deck. Then they can only face each other if the Man is in the Lady's future (for a female querent) or if the Lady is in the Man's past (for a male querent). Which seems a bit limiting.

As far as I know, traditionally a GT was thrown for a particular time frame (e.g., the future) and all cards were read for that time frame. You might do three GT's at one go--one for past, one for present, one for future (it was a more leisurely time! :bugeyed:

). It seems more popular now to read past-present-future all in one GT. My point about the facing being restricted to one possible chronology doesn't come up if the GT is all for one time frame. Maybe taking note of whether the Man and Lady face each other is best applied if the GT is all one time frame rather than past-present-future. Thoughts?

Tag_jorrit

MissNine said:
Good resource! I use the combo info daily!

Only thing with this info is the author uses card inserts and I don't. The only ones who would be people for me are the Dog and Rider. Rarely the snake, unless shady cards around snake give me reason to see snake as a woman.

This is where the playing card inserts give clues to the 'people' cards. Lilies can be an older man. A Bear, depending on which tradition you follow can be a protective man, or woman, or a boss. Bouquet can be a young woman. Also, the Cavalier is often a young man or a lover. These are just a few of the people cards. There are lots of 'people' cards in Lenormand!

MissNine

Teheuti said:
A GT is complex. It really depends on the client's situation and other cards around the couple. If they face each other without an intervening card then directionality can play a role - especially if you use a deck where the Man & Woman can be facing each other or turned away!

I haven't used directions of people in the cards...mostly because if I try to stuff one more rule into my reading, I think my poor brain will start hurting. But, I do think the card between the two people cards will give a lot of insight on what binds them together. What kind of connection they have.

If a couple has already broken up and the Man card is in the Woman's future (Woman= Significator), then Man could be:
1) a new person,
2) some other man in the querent's life (boss, co-worker, friend - based on adjacent cards), or
3) the old Significant Other popping up for some reason (calling to get some of his things back or wanting to reconnect?).

Yes! I can see these possibilities! I think option 3 would be the obvious only when the significant other card is charged to be the former lover. At least, logic would lend itself that way versus not charging it and laying the cards. Then, the Man can represent other men, as you've said. I had a GT once where the Man in the reading represented my doctor.

Some of the "rules" I hear can be ludicrous, especially when they have nothing to do with the original meaning and intent of the cards.

YES! Agreed! There's different ways to look at even the most "obvious" pairings. For instance, another member's cards showed Scythe-Heart. IT didn't mean her marriage was ending. It was an abrupt departure of her partner, who had to leave for a business trip. That was in a smaller spread, but having the GT with houses (which I do use) can help with further insight to confirm what you think the cards are saying.

Thank you for your help!

MissNine

Padma said:
Snake comes up for all kinds of problematic things for me, but rarely as a person. I think your take of only seeing it as a woman when shady cards surround it is a good one...although occasionally it came up with Dog to denote a tricksy woman I knew who had a dog. I don't use inserts much either, but I do see the Bouquet occasionally as a gal, and Bear is very much a person to me, unless it is with Tower or Fish. With Child or Fox it always seems to indicate a pet dog to me

Actually, this one is hard to call, because it always depends on the placement of the cards around them, the house they are in, and my own intuition. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules with Lennies - it is a mysterious little system, governed by internal rules of its own.

The Snake is one sneaky card for sure. I have not seen it much as woman. And I think it's smart to stick with rules once you make them, like you have! Yes, that Dog card is a an iffy one with Fox or Snake in the neighborhood!

This has proven true in my readings - especially since my Man and Lady cards can be back to back if the Man falls after Lady. When they have their backs to each other, with no card in between, it is almost like a refusal to see each other's point of view, like needing to be the one who is right, and both too stubborn to give in!

I'm tempted to try this method, but I think I'll stick to my set rules for now before adding another ball to the juggling mix. ;-) I'll get there eventually!

Thank you for your input, Padma!

MissNine

Tag_jorrit said:
This is where the playing card inserts give clues to the 'people' cards. Lilies can be an older man. A Bear, depending on which tradition you follow can be a protective man, or woman, or a boss. Bouquet can be a young woman. Also, the Cavalier is often a young man or a lover. These are just a few of the people cards. There are lots of 'people' cards in Lenormand!

yes, they do give more insight. But, they also make my mind start spinning and before you know it, I've got a soap opera building up before my very eyes, with half the story a complete fabrication. Perhaps once I get the basics down a bit more, I'll start venturing into card insert land.

I work with the Piatnik Gypsy cards, which are modeled after Lennies. But, they have no numbers and there are far more cards that have people in them, and can stand for people, than the Lennies. I tried doing GTs with them, but started getting dizzy at so many possible people in the situation!
I love the Lennies for their simplicity...yet complexity.

Thank you for your help!

MissNine

surpeti said:
No, you are reading the sitter's GT, not the man's. You'd have to do a GT for the man as querent to find out what is in his future.

This is an interesting rule, as I had thought that one can ascertain the other person's future...as well as future of key card situations in the GT. But, I guess there would be only the sitter's future - and not the other person's future shared - in the row if both appeared on it?

Along with all the other points raised here, I've wondered about the fact that when the Gentleman and Lady are facing toward each other, they are always in the same left-right relationship horizontally. Since the facing directions vary from deck to deck, let's just say for example the Lady faces right and the Man faces left in your deck. Then they can only face each other if the Man is in the Lady's future (for a female querent) or if the Lady is in the Man's past (for a male querent). Which seems a bit limiting.

Good point.

My point about the facing being restricted to one possible chronology doesn't come up if the GT is all for one time frame. Maybe taking note of whether the Man and Lady face each other is best applied if the GT is all one time frame rather than past-present-future. Thoughts?

Gosh! I don't think I could handle a pure present GT! I'd keep incorporating future as I read to the right down the lines! I do not incorporate the direction the people cards are facing...at least for now, as I'm so new to the Lenormand. But, there's plenty of time down the road to get creative!

Thank you for your input!

ThtDancerGuy

MissNine said:
Curious what the experienced readers look for to recognize other people who continue to be active in the sitter's future, especially those who's cards land to the sitter's past.

When a significantor card is to the left of the sitter's card, how do you know that they will be part of that person's future?

Is this more of a possibility when the significant other is in the same X axis as the sitter card?

GT Example: (, -= card, X = person card, S= sitter card)
---X-S--
---------
---------
---------

Alternatively, if a person (man/lady, dog, child) is in the sitter's future, does that mean that they will have direct interaction with the sitter?

GT Example:

---------
--S-----
---------
------X-

In a Grand Tableau, it can be deduced that if the Sitter's card (say, the Man) and a specific other person (say, the Woman) are on the same horizontal line, aka the same row, then whichever card you look at, the future of that person's card is going to match up with that of the other person in question.

I.e. say that this is the row: Mountain + Man + Sun + Moon + Woman + Scythe + Stork + Ring
The Man is in the Woman's past, but the Woman is in the Man's future. It doesn't matter which card you're focusing on, the fact that one of them is in the other's future means that there will be some form of interaction or some event including the two of them that will (most likely) occur; because they're on the same "line," their respective paths will eventually parallel one another at a particular point.

DownUnderNZer

Man or Woman on the house of the Coffin or Coffin on Man or Woman could indicate it's over and done with or Coffin on Heart or Ring etc.

Mountain between them and/or Coffin can indicate this as well.

Man and Woman facing each other means there is communication or something still there.

Man and Woman turned away from each other means problems or not seeing eye to eye.

Underneath the feet...a person is more or less put behind and no longer has a strong influence.

GT ISSUE: Do people in the sitter's past mean they're gone??

Teheuti

Padma

surpeti

Tag_jorrit

MissNine

MissNine

MissNine

MissNine

ThtDancerGuy

DownUnderNZer