Five of Swords

caridwen

I've been having an argument with someone about the figure in the middle of this card.

To me, he looks as though he's paused but also as though he's following the victor. His body language looks as though he's turned to check on the weeping figure but isn't walking towards them.

My friend thinks that the figure in the middle is walking towards the weeping figure, having turned their back on the victor.

What do you think?
 

Rosanne

I think the middle person is a "Second", the support person in a fight. He is waiting for his man who has been defeated, and therefore humiliated. Men do not go and console each other as women seem to do. So he stands waiting for his mates composure to return, so they can leave the scene of their shame.~Rosanne
 

caridwen

That's a very interesting perspective, thank you:)

I agree that the figure in the middle could be taken as a second in a duel. I don't agree though that the event is 'shameful'. I see the victor as gaining their victory through dubious means, they also have way too many swords for a duel - five swords which show up again in the Seven perhaps.

Maybe the person in the middle is the victor's second, yet they see what the victor has done as shameful. Or feel torn between them - the victor did something dishonourable therefore the 'second' no longer wants to second them.

Their body language, looks to me, as though they have paused, turned and will follow the victor or have not made up their mind..
 

psychic sue

I like all these points made.

I was looking at the card and thinking - maybe there are three different stages here.

The Victor - smug and enjoying his victory.

The Middle man - does he fight by fair means or foul? Or does he settle for the defeat?

And the defeated - despondent and depressed.

Maybe, when we read this card, the querant is one of those three people. The other cards would tell which stage they are at?

This has only just occurred to me, so feel free to rip it to shreds!

To me, this card has always been about perspective - I always thought the querant was either the defeated or the victor.

Now, however, I think Cari has opened up a third option.

Sue x
 

light2000

5 of sword

i´ve another point of view. at the cards the color is important too. if you want a very good method to understand cards, ask me that i teatche you. but, it´s a litle long and you need a lot of love to tarot.
so the sky of this card is grey whith clouds, it means always bad things, sadness...
so this card means destrution, important lost, enemy, division.
and never means victory, at least for you, the victory is from your enemy.
but, the mean of the card depend where is the position on the game. if it appear at fears , it means that you afraid of lost something, if it appears at personality it means that you are agressive, that you have a lt of enemies that whant make bad things to you. and maybe yiu are depress. you are tired of loose and like the image, it´s better give up and define another objectivas for your life.
bey, another thing, what methoth you use? i use the 12 houses and you?
 

Sophie

I like the colour method. Yet look - the clouds are dispersing, getting thinner. The trouble is slowly going away, there has been a defeat, which means there has been a victory.

But Light2000 - what about the person in the middle? You are talking about the two others. Yet there is a third person, in the middle, that one rarely talks about. What about him?
 

tmgrl2

I usually "read" cards in the moment...

but...

Five is a number of order and disorder....two + three...

Two swords in the figure's hand (foreground, prominent figure)

two on the ground....and one at ready...

Two wins...two losses? Next, please??

Figure is smiling....and looking at one that is walking away (left of card as face it) and yet a third, walking away....sad one?

Winning? and Losing? Tiebreakers?

Also, maybe the figure who looks as though (s)he is crying...couold be washing his/her face from body of water that looks near.

Some you win, some you lose, some rain out....

Life as a "crap shoot."

Clouds slicingupward through the blue sky...again....order & disorder...

Saddness (gray clouds) cutting through blue skies?

Swords as air...intellect: Sometimes you need to just get in there and
"do it" like the Nike commercial...not think about things too much.

And that "not thinking" can be a form of

Clarity.

Or....could be a smirk on the figure's face....one who knows that some you win, some you lose....

Just meditating on the picture....

It changes in meaning, though, depending upon the reading.

terri
 

light2000

helvetica

i dont understand the question. you asked about the one that is smilling whith the two swords on the air?
this one is the enemy that defet you. see the shirt of him is red, it means action, violence, corage and determination. and the gree one at the top witch means: desire, corruption.
the sword mean action and work. the water behind means regeneration, it´s the sign of life.
as you see the sea is a line whith a litle move so it means indecision. and i can tell about another things of the card all night long.
the person on the midle is crying, so she is defeted, the color s gold, so she already no what to do. she alrady saw what have faild, and she will star from the begining.
the person at the left, put the red shirt of, it means she gave uo figth the enemy, and she is staying gold. so she will find another objective, because whith the defeat she find out that thie route it´s not for her.
 

ArcanoMáximo

whitnesses?

Rachell Polack says that this card has a "shame sense" too. The person may be ashamed by his defeat, and now i am thinking that this other may be a representation of the public, the society, the people that has been seing the figth. In my personal life when i have, for example, a figth with my coupple i hate that somebody may be earing us, that turns the things worse!!!
AM*
 

wandking

I agree with previous posts: Look at the sky with air-ruled swords

THE FIVE OF SWORDS
An ambiguous sky on the Five of Swords clears the air for your defeat. As this card falls in a spread, it might plunge you into the depths of individual loss as it signals unfair success of a treacherous adversary. Through this card, a typical duality within the Swords Suit turns into duplicity. Occasionally you defeat an enemy with slicing intellect or unethical deeds. Suffering personal downfall, however, offers a primary meaning of the Five of Swords. Despite a supreme effort, you will likely lose. The Five of Swords is about not only defeat and disappointment; it also warns that dismay after failure can spiral you into progressive decline. Accept defeat; learn from it and then move on to the next challenge in life. Good losers graciously admit losing but true winners study a setback to uncover the reasons for failure and then congratulate opponents, while quietly resolving to improve. As Mark Twain imparts, “Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.”

If the Five of Swords appears in a reading and you have won, there is still a caution to observe. Like the two swords on the ground, arrogance and pride are often the trophies of tough disputes. Do not assume you are invincible. Conquering an antagonist might cause you to think you have a right to feel proud but resist a temptation to gloat. Smirking, like the man on this card, invites another attack. It simply boils down to the Golden Rule of Christianity: “Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.” If you prefer the Hindu approach in an oversimplified version, accept “What goes around comes around.” Either way, this universe offers a means to level the playing field. Rise above attempts at vengeance if you ache from a recent defeat; also avoid glaring displays of pride as you overcome an adversary. Proclaiming invincibility encourages people to prove you wrong. If your conquest came from unscrupulous action, expect an attempt at revenge. When you suffer defeat, remember, “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord” or just leave it to Karma. Every major religion on the face of this planet provides a cure for devious ailments and you are not the doctor.

An intriguing aspect emerges from imagery on the Five of Swords. Unlike typical gray sky in the suit, conflicted heavens, which offer both blue sky of clarity and clouds of confusion, appear on this card. Showing aftermath of a conflict, symbolism on many Waite/ Smith variants portrays a victorious man and two defeated opponents. In showing a man with two swords at his feet, this card details the plunder of a conquest. Since he already holds three swords, his prizes represent little more than an empty victory. Perhaps the winner did not truly defeat the other two men in combat. Possibly the pair dropped their swords before walking away. Either they feared losing or knew winning would be a futile exercise. In a sense, they win by deciding not to fight; because realizing when fighting serves no purpose, allows wisdom to become a shield. In this symbolism, there lurks the ominous warning to fight is to lose: Keep this in mind if a conflict is at hand.

In numerology, the number five has strong ties to the notion of autonomy. This card shows two people who know that freedom sometimes comes with a price. Two of the strongest characteristics linked to five are movement and change: Symbolism on this card implies both energies. Despite a devastating defeat shown on the Five of Swords, two of these people are still free to progress and create new enterprises. The fifth path in the Swords saga leads to new ideas and undertakings, which mirrors the Venus in Aquarius astrological influence on this card. Although two defeated men forfeit a price for liberty, keep in mind that freedom is truly priceless. Autonomy, strongly embraced by numerological and astrological factors, offers powerful influence to this card and teaches you to move on after defeat, with your head held high. Anyone who employs treachery to win is no winner at all, in a broader sense because deceit will eventually lead to his or her undoing. This five emerges as singularly the best card in Tarot to illustrate that old adage “It is not whether you win, or lose: It is how you play the game.”