I don't know how this happened...

I decided to open a thread for people who have (or had) huge problems with RWS deck.

It happened I bought RWS deck, finally (unfortunately, it's the US Games edition without original writings by Pixie). It took me more than a year and more than 20 decks to get original RWS. Why? 'Cause I thought it's a kind of an obvious choice. Everyone has RWS (ok, not everyone, but most of the people). Most of the people are learning with this deck. When random people think about Tarot, they picture these cards. I must admit, I hate this aspect of the deck.

At some point, I decided to get Morgan-Greer. I love it to pieces and decided to get RWS. I got it and loved instantly. I'm into these two 'cause I wanted something to read for people, not only online, but while going out too. They're easy to read and full of symbolism which can be easily find in many resources. Not to mention, I love to read about Tarot and most of the books have illustrations of RWS or similiar. I use Tarot app where is RWS. Without having the cards, I know the pictures. But getting them physically - I was stunned. Now I think, how I could wait so long?

I must admit - I have a hate-love relationship with RWS deck (much less with Morgan-Greer). Now, I can't imagine dream interpretations or more personal work without it. I'm even planning to get more RWS decks.

Anyone of you have something special with RWS? Did you come to it after a while, or getting at the beginning, then hating it and getting back again? It's a bit fascinating 'cause months ago I promised to myself - I'll never ever get RWS deck. Just never ever.

Share your personal stories

I didn't even own a RWS deck for four decades. Although I had the Pictorial Key to the Tarot, I used the Thoth exclusively the whole time. Upon coming to AT in 2011 and starting to participate in the learning threads, I found that it's a common source for many of the decks used here, so I bought one.

My major problem with it is the scenic minor arcana (I know, it's what nearly everyone else loves about it!). The major arcana, except for Death and the Sun, are pretty much standard imagery, as are the court cards. With the minor arcana, much of the symbolism seems to depart significantly from its Golden Dawn origins. I've said elsewhere that the GD system - at least as Crowley adapted it - used an "energy" model (or maybe an "entropy" model would be more precise) not a pictorial, narrative one for the minors. The flow of elemental energy moves from its purest, most potent form in the Aces to its most attenuated and depleted expression in the Tens; the Thoth deck depicts this in an elegant, semi-pictorial way that doesn't attempt to tell an overt story. The RWS images often give, if not a false, at least an idiosyncratic version of it that wanders well away from the original intent.

Crowley said it very well in the Book of Thoth when descibing the 9 of Disks: "As a general remark, one may say that the multiplication of a symbol of Enegy tends to degrade its essential meaning, as well as to complicate it." I'm sure that Waite was conversant with these ideas, I just don't think Smith captured them all that well in many cases. So much upbeat interpretation has been applied to cards that are supposed to be describing declining potency that it makes me think "empowerment" rather than "truth" is the main object of modern tarot reading, at least with the RWS and RWS-based decks.

I like RWS decks, but I never read with them or its clone decks for other people, due to the fact that querent sitting in front of me, looks at the cards in the spread, and then roughly guesses the reading flows and results by themselves ... hmm 10 of swords oh my god, that looks terrible, arghhh 5 of pentacles I am going to be poor etc. This phenomenon was not positive for reading sessions.

So I tend to use the RWS decks only for my own readings exclusively, and always use either Thoth Tarot deck, Liber T or Tarot de Marseille for other people. Only the Death, Tower and Devil cards might scare them, but it is relatively less chance of them turning up in the readings, and if they do, and then yes it is justified for anyone to pay attention.

Barleywine said:

I didn't even own
My major problem with it is the scenic minor arcana (I know, it's what nearly everyone else loves about it!). The major arcana, except for Death and the Sun, are pretty much standard imagery, as are the court cards. With the minor arcana, much of the symbolism seems to depart significantly from its Golden Dawn origins. I've said elsewhere that the GD system - at least as Crowley adapted it - used an "energy" model (or maybe an "entropy" model would be more precise) not a pictorial, narrative one for the minors. The flow of elemental energy moves from its purest, most potent form in the Aces to its most attenuated and depleted expression in the Tens; the Thoth deck depicts this in an elegant, semi-pictorial way that doesn't attempt to tell an overt story. The RWS images often give, if not a false, at least an idiosyncratic version of it that wanders well away from the original intent.

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It's not an easy issue for me. I like pictorial minors but in the same time, I know how great can be reading with decks like TdM. You create your own version, your very own story. But on the other hand - I enjoy RWS attempt to this. It's easier, for sure. The picture is giving you idea what it can mean. But on the other hand, you still can make modifications (like authors of RWS clones or based on this system). I'm not a purist in this case. I'm always ready to use my creativity, ideas or other systems.

And I can say - aesthetically, deck is pleasing. I've never thought I'd say that.

So much upbeat interpretation has been applied to cards that are supposed to be describing declining potency that it makes me think "empowerment" rather than "truth" is the main object of modern tarot reading, at least with the RWS and RWS-based decks.

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I totally understand this point. It's the thing with which I struggle quite a lot. I like readings for the empowerment - some people really need it and I can provide these kinds of messages. When I started to read, I wanted to empower people but after time, I've noticed it's impossible. I can't be like this all the time. Let's say, I'm looking for "truth" too. Especially for myself. Anyway, I'd rather to work with RWS system on my own, without going through simple and obvious interpretations from minors. It's pretty hard to describe.

I'll start to think about working with Thoth again (and possibly again and again, until I get the deck).

seedcake said:

But on the other hand - I enjoy RWS attempt to this. It's easier, for sure. The picture is giving you idea what it can mean. But on the other hand, you still can make modifications (like authors of RWS clones or based on this system). I'm not a purist in this case. I'm always ready to use my creativity, ideas or other systems.

Click to expand...

To be honest, I do like the scenic minor cards for the "postures, gazes, and gestures" of the people, just not for the activities they seem to be doing. If they'e facing, looking or pointing in a certain direction (like toward or away from another card, into or out of the scene, or toward the past or future), if they're seated, standing or mounted, if they're alone or with other people, it all brings meaning that I can use. In that case, it's not so much about the "story" in the scene but about the hints.

Barleywine said:

To be honest, I do like the scenic minor cards for the "postures, gazes, and gestures" of the people, just not for the activities they seem to be doing. If they'e facing, looking or pointing in a certain direction (like toward or away from another card, into or out of the scene, or toward the past or future), if they're seated, standing or mounted, if they're alone or with other people, it all brings meaning that I can use. In that case, it's not so much about the "story" in the scene but about the hints.

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You just wrote what I really like but I was not able to describe. A very strong point about RWS (and Morgan-Greer), are directions, where the person in the card is looking or pointing. I use it a lot when I work with RWS. It always indicates where to look or concentrate. I get the feeling what energy is needed and so on. It gives the impression of moving images. With modern more modern decks (let's say after 2000), I don't have it.

I also had a huge problem with the RWS. My first deck was the 1JJ Swiss deck but the one that really introduced me to tarot was the so-called 'Original' RWS with limited colours and really black outlining. There was nothing about the artwork that I liked, it was too dark and I didn't like the colours. I bought another standard RWS in Spanish and realised that I didn't like the colouring of that one either, the yellow used really grates with me. I never bothered getting the deck in English although I had a mini so there wasn't that much yellow to bother me,

I then spent a while using RWS clone decks but not that deck itself but I was a deck hopper and didn't stop on one deck long enough to really get to know it. I had my favourites, the Spiral, Morgan Greer, Old Path - all clone decks and all eventually moved on from.

In 2007 I found the Liber T and I have never moved on, I'd had enough of RWS clone decks and realised that I couldn't keep just buying them in the hopes of finding one that I liked enough to stay with so I picked something completely different and stay with it.

Then last year (I think) the Centennial PCS was released and I bought it because the online images looked interesting. And I must admit, I love this deck - the colouring, the artwork with this colouring is fantastic, the colours are muted and give a really nice feel to this deck. Had this deck been around all those years ago, it would have been the one I was looking for. Then LoS release a nearly identical coloured deck to the Centennial. The LoS one is on standard LoS cardstock but the colouring is very similar to the Centennial so now I have two RWS that are very firm favourites and I find that I can use them because of the years I spent with clone decks but not only that, I have the interest now to find out about the artwork and the symbols used. I never though I would pick the RWS but I would pick these two decks. And when the mini Centennial in a tin is released later this year, I'll be getting that one too.
EDIT
In early 2016, Lo Scarabeo changed the artwork of the LoS PCS so I would not recommend the second version/edition.

Emily said:

Then last year (I think) the Centennial PCS was released and I bought it because the online images looked interesting. And I must admit, I love this deck - the colouring, the artwork with this colouring is fantastic, the colours are muted and give a really nice feel to this deck. Had this deck been around all those years ago, it would have been the one I was looking for. Then LoS release a nearly identical coloured deck to the Centennial. The LoS one is on standard LoS cardstock but the colouring is very similar to the Centennial so now I have two RWS that are very firm favourites and I find that I can use them because of the years I spent with clone decks but not only that, I have the interest now to find out about the artwork and the symbols used. I never though I would pick the RWS but I would pick these two decks. And when the mini Centennial in a tin is released later this year, I'll be getting that one too.

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Definitely, I want to get Centennial or Golden Universal (that's only clone). I find the coloring of Centennial very pleasing. But even with US Games standard version, it's fine (I like the yellow, a bit worse with grey sky but maybe, I need to interprete it and understand it). Anyway, I'd love to get Centennial in a tin too. I just found out that today.

The Albano-Waite was my second tarot deck, 1970 or so.
My love-love relationship with the Waite-Smith tradition started then. I have never really cared about Waite or what he had to say about anything; Pamela's art grabbed me and talked to me immediately.
I researched the deck for decades and finally arrived at the conclusion that no one has a clue; I see what I want to see and I say what I see.
In the 1980s and 90s, I went backpacking with friends in the Sawtooth and White Cloud Mountains of Idaho. Above 9,000 feet and under the influence of wide variety of recreational substances I would spread my Albano and answer my friends' many questions about life, the universe, and everything. Around a cozy fire or by flashlight, again and again, Smith's images seemed to be fundamental--crossing cultural and ethnic demarcations and proving them artificial social constructs. Mostly, we laughed at the stories that we created as the spreads unfolded with each newly turned card.
It was hardly "reading tarot" but 'twas terrific fun. And these experiences established a reading style that has stuck with me. My job is to entertain, not advise. (Howcould I possibly know what to say to someone when my life is so obviously a mess?) Could not do it without these images that are instantly recognizable as old. And sometimes creepy. And sometimes so anachronistic as to be quaint.

bogiesan said:

The Albano-Waite was my second tarot deck, 1970 or so.
My love-love relationship with the Waite-Smith tradition started then. I have never really cared about Waite or what he had to say about anything; Pamela's art grabbed me and talked to me immediately.
I researched the deck for decades and finally arrived at the conclusion that no one has a clue; I see what I want to see and I say what I see.
In the 1980s and 90s, I went backpacking with friends in the Sawtooth and White Cloud Mountains of Idaho. Above 9,000 feet and under the influence of wide variety of recreational substances I would spread my Albano and answer my friends' many questions about life, the universe, and everything. Around a cozy fire or by flashlight, again and again, Smith's images seemed to be fundamental--crossing cultural and ethnic demarcations and proving them artificial social constructs. Mostly, we laughed at the stories that we created as the spreads unfolded with each newly turned card.
It was hardly "reading tarot" but 'twas terrific fun. And these experiences established a reading style that has stuck with me. My job is to entertain, not advise. (Howcould I possibly know what to say to someone when my life is so obviously a mess?) Could not do it without these images that are instantly recognizable as old. And sometimes creepy. And sometimes so anachronistic as to be quaint.

Click to expand...

Great story! We can become so deadly serious about what we see as our "sacred mission" to impart insight and (hopefully) wisdom that we forget that reading tarot can be a good deal of inspiring fun at the same time. Now that I think of it, that "fun factor" is probably why I always feel energized rather than drained from the act of reading. (And now I'm really looking forward to getting that Albano-Waite deck I have on the way )