First big disappointment with a deck

Some Tarot decks work better for me than others, always some give and take, some getting to know one another. But the last deck I purchased was really a disappointment. The Universal Wirth.

The images are great. Check 'em out for yourself: http://www.albideuter.de/html/universal-wirth.html. But I should have looked more closely before ordering.

Switching Air with Water (swords hilt deep in the sea) was something I might be willing to work with because a lot of other things do work, except... I totally don't get the Astrological asignations. And the symbols seem randomly placed: a lot of Virgo and Gemini popping up, especially on the Coins.

I did discover that the boat anchor is an old Christian relegious symbol, roughly representing hope in Christ. That one threw me for a while.

I'd like to find a way to work with this. Does anyone know how the artists of the pips in the Universal Wirth deck arrived at those dignities? More than likely, I'm just missing something and need instruction.

and another thing...

I just read through a gaggle of posts in the "Decks I wish I hadn't bought" thread. I laughed and laughed. You guys are so much fun! I feel better already.

I don't have any interest in or mastery of astrological attributions of the cards. But for other reasons, I've read Papus' Tarot of the Bohemians. It's got a chapter on "The Astronomical Tarot," which includes an essay on that topic by Wirth himself.

If the problematical assignments are connected with the decans, then it may be because you're used to another system. There are thirty-six decans, and forty pip cards. So adjustments have to be made, if you insist on finding correspondences between the two sets. The Golden Dawn didn't include the aces in their assignments, and kept the tens. The tradition of Papus and Wirth left out the tens, and kept the aces.

None of this may be relevant to your questions, but in case it may be, the book, and Wirth's essay are available online here.

shaveling said:

None of this may be relevant to your questions, but in case it may be, the book, and Wirth's essay are available online here.

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Shaveling, Thank you so much. I'll check out that site in just a moment. What you said makes sense and, yes, I have as a beginner been sticking close to GD stuff. (Waite, Crowley, etc.)

If I had a little understanding about how they arrived at those attributions on the Universal Wirth I could work with it. Work with it meaning: explore their system or, more than likely, be able to let it go and move on to the deeper meanings that happen for me.

One of the symbols(?), particularlly on Pents appears to be a capital "L". I don't think it's Leo, because our more traditional sysbolism is used for zodiacal signs. Any ideas?

This book might be worth checking out. I decided not to get sidetracked by the Wirth stuff.

LRichard said:

This book might be worth checking out. I decided not to get sidetracked by the Wirth stuff.

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LR, Once again, thanks.

The info on Sacred Texts, Tarot of the Bohemians by Papus, still doesn't line up exactly with the symbolism on the Universal Wirth deck, but it really helps me see how, once again in the history of the West, the English had their own take on things and influenced our thinking tremendously. I see a little more of the evolution of Tarot.

With a birthday coming up the middle of next month, I'm the kind of person who enjoys diversity but benefits greatly from focus. Sidetracked, exactly. And now, back to GD.

(I did put Wirth's book on my wish list. At a later date I might find it very interesting.)

LRichard said:

This book might be worth checking out. I decided not to get sidetracked by the Wirth stuff.

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Huzzah! I hadn't realized the new edition of Tarot of the Magicians with Mary K Greer's introduction was out. I'll order it this afternoon. For the people who might not know, it perhaps ought to be noted that the deck as Wirth created it was majors only, and the book is about the Trumps.

That said, there are lots of illustrations and explanations of symbolism, including symbols I see on some of the Universal minors. But looking quickly through my copy of the earlier edition, I can't see an illustration of that funny L-shaped ribbon thing. I'd only begun the book a couple of months ago, and since I'm not much on the occultists' wavelength, had laid it aside for more thrilling reading. But maybe there is an explanation I'll find when I read the new printing.

LRichard said:

This book might be worth checking out. I decided not to get sidetracked by the Wirth stuff.

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It IS worth checking out ! Just saying.

I'd take the deck off you if you don't want it.

I have a sheet somewhere in my collection about the Eudes Picard minors if that is any help?

BrightEye said:

I'd take the deck off you if you don't want it.

I have a sheet somewhere in my collection about the Eudes Picard minors if that is any help?

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Thanks. Yes, I'd like to see that sheet if it's not too much trouble.

Did you mean take that deck off the list in my AT profile?