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Study Notes: Valens Anthology

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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post

Planets in their own rulerships (proper places) are stronger than those which are not.
Aha! I'd been interpreting 'proper place' as not-2nd-6th-8th-12th. Hence the confusion as to where to start counting from. I assume rulership == any kind of rulership, (domicile, triplicity, exaltation. Term? Decan?) rather than just domicile. Very useful. Thank You.

as is

Quote:
Alien places are the Detriment of the planet in later periods. So the Sun in Aquarius is in an alien place.

For your individual queries at the end:

[1] is the pre-natal lunation (either Full or New Moon) it can be used in the length of life calculation

[2] Basis is the foundation on which the nativity is based. It gives some indication of eminence, especially as it is related to both Spirit and Fortune. The Lot in a good place and its ruler in a good place are indicators of a strong nativity. As you might by now realise, Basis is always below the horizon in he lower hemisphere. Placed in the fourth of fifth is very good. Placed in the sixth is weak, especially if it is also averse to the Lots from which it is derived.

[3] It simply means their in one of their own rulerships.

[4] Ditto
Thank You.

Random Thought: It might be an educational exercise to take the short list of principles you elucidate above and break down individual rules from Valens to see how they are constructed/how they work.
Top   #111
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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A couple of unknown terms in book 2, section 25


What are
1. Place of Rank
2. Lot of Standing

Also

" Sun, Moon,, Jupiter, Ascendant in Aries, Saturn, Venus in
Aquarius, Mars in Gemini, Mercury in Pisces. This person was commanding
and dictatorial because the rulers [Sun Jupiter] of the triangle [Leo
Sagittarius Aries] were found to be at an angle and in the Ascendant. The Lot
of Fortune, Daimon, and Basis, as well as the Exaltation, were located in the
same place [Aries]. The ruler of these, Mars, being unfavorably situated and
not in aspect with the [III] Place had the opposite effects, exile and violent
death; for it was the ruler of the new Moon [in Aries]."

I don't understand "Mars .. not in aspect with the [iii] place" bit (the rest is fine). It looks like Mars is in Gemini, the 3d place and so sextiles the ascendant (Aries) and all the Lots, and both lights!.
Top   #112
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
What are
1. Place of Rank
2. Lot of Standing
This section does seem odd. I've been looking to see if I can find any explanations:

The Place of Rank, is very likely to mean the tenth (MC) - Confident answer

The Lot of Standing - there are only four references to this in the entire Anthology and this section contains all of them. There's no explanation either before or after. So it's either an interpolation by a different author, an error by a copyist, or Valens is referring to the Lot of Basis - there are no direct references to it in this section, which seems odd, given the preceding sections. Whilst this makes some sense, I'm not confident that it's the correct answer.

I'm trying to find a copy of Book II by another translator to see if there's a different rendering of the Greek, or some clear explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon

" Sun, Moon,, Jupiter, Ascendant in Aries, Saturn, Venus in
Aquarius, Mars in Gemini, Mercury in Pisces. This person was commanding
and dictatorial because the rulers [Sun Jupiter] of the triangle [Leo
Sagittarius Aries] were found to be at an angle and in the Ascendant. The Lot
of Fortune, Daimon, and Basis, as well as the Exaltation, were located in the
same place [Aries]. The ruler of these, Mars, being unfavorably situated and
not in aspect with the [III] Place had the opposite effects, exile and violent
death; for it was the ruler of the new Moon [in Aries]."

I don't understand "Mars .. not in aspect with the [iii] place" bit (the rest is fine). It looks like Mars is in Gemini, the 3d place and so sextiles the ascendant (Aries) and all the Lots, and both lights!.

The [iii] is a left over from my conversion of Riley's dense pdf file and should be deleted. Sorry!
Top   #113
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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ah 'interpolation' makes perfect sense.


Thanks Minderwiz.
Top   #114
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Where can I learn about the impact of pre natal New/Full Moon?


Valens rule from Section 24:

"Rule 3. If the sign of the New Moon or Full Moon or the ruler of this sign happens to be in the Ascendant or MC, the native will be fortunate."

Minderwiz clarified that this meant the *pre natal* New/Full Moon. I've *heard* of this concept (szygy? spelling?) but I haven't yet found a good source for it. Does Valens deal with this in any detail later in the books? If so, great I'll just wait till I get there. But if he doesn't, and this is a bit of foundational astrological knowledge, can you point me at some material to learn this?

Thanks in advance
Top   #115
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Oikodespotes


The Syzygy or pre-natal lunation was used by most Hellenistic and early medieval Astrologers. It's main use was in the calculation of the ruler of the chart - for the Hellenistic Astrologers, this was called the Oikodespotes, or house master (though the term had other meanings, depending on context, for example Venus is the Oikodespotes of Taurus - the ruler of the sign).

The Oikodespotes was not simply an end in itself (though some writers including Valens saw it as an indicator of the chart owner's personal daimon - their guiding spirit. However it was also a mean to an end in the calculation of the length of life.

Every Hellenisitic Astrologer had a method for calculating the length of life and they were all different! Valens has (from memory) three or four methods which he mentions. However, most methods involve finding a predominator, which is preferably the Sun by Day or the Moon by Night with the proviso that it must be well placed in the chart. If it is not, then there are fallbacks to find an alternative. These can include, The ruler of the Ascendant, the rulers of Fortune and Daimon, the Ascendant itself, and the Syzygy.

By the Medieval period, Sun, Moon, Fortune, Ascendant and Syzygy were commonly used in Primary Directions. Lilly uses a similar system but replaces the Syzygy with the MC (which Valens uses in one of his methods), when using Primary Directions. If you make it to Book III of Christian Astrology you'll already have some understanding of what he's doing and why. The same would hold if you looked at Morin and his use of Primary Directions.

When you look at Length of Life calculations you need to be careful. None of these authors are saying that when you reach a certain age you will drop down dead. What they are trying to forecast is life threatening periods. You may well survive that period and carry on until the next one arrives. Moring tells the story of surviving such a period when his horse threw him and he had a bad fall. As you now realise, Fortune (Tuche, or chance) has a role to play in the way in which life unfolds in Hellenistic Astrology (though you should not treat this as a modern theory of probability). There are escape clauses in the charts where, either propitiating the gods or divine intervention can change events.
Top   #116
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Thanks Mindewiz


Very useful.

I have some grasp of Primary Directions since I worked through most of Gansten's (spelling?) book on the topic. I don't *use* it (yet) but can follow its use in an example.

So, if I understand correctly., lord of the degree/sign of pre natal New Moon or Full Moon (in my case syzygy would be a full moon, since the moon is in the 3d quarter phase at my birth) is important for length of life calculations, and a potential 'chart lord'. Interesting.

EDIT: ok I checked and the last Full Moon before my birth happened in my ascendant sign (Gemini) about 9 degrees (15 Gemini) behind by Ascendant (24 Gemini) which makes Mercury the syzygy lord (correct term?). I think by WSH,this counts as being "in the ascendant" by the Valens rule quoted above.
Top   #117
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
Very useful.


So, if I understand correctly., lord of the degree/sign of pre natal New Moon or Full Moon (in my case syzygy would be a full moon, since the moon is in the 3d quarter phase at my birth) is important for length of life calculations, and a potential 'chart lord'. Interesting.

EDIT: ok I checked and the last Full Moon before my birth happened in my ascendant sign (Gemini) about 9 degrees (15 Gemini) behind by Ascendant (24 Gemini) which makes Mercury the syzygy lord (correct term?). I think by WSH,this counts as being "in the ascendant" by the Valens rule quoted above.
Depends on whose method you're following but in general (though not every author) you would be looking at where in the chart - what place - the Syzygy fell. And you would need to have eliminated the Sun or Moon from contention and probably Fortune as well.

You would look at the aphetic places - for Ptolemy, those are the places from the Ascendant to the Descendant, in diurnal motion (the hemisphere that's in the light (of either Sun or Moon). Not all the places are good, but Ascendant, eleventh, tenth and ninth are best, twelfth and eight are not good and the seventh is stretching matters, as the Sun//Moon may have set (hence quadrant houses work best here). If the Sect Light is in one of those places, then it is the Predominator. If it isn't you move on to the next on the list (which might well be the out of Sect Light) if it's in an aphetic place then you take it, in preference to the Sect Light. If it isn't you move on to the next in the list. Ptolemy used the Lot (not the Lord) of Fortune, and then the Syzygy. In your case the Syzygy is in the Ascendant (but not by quadrant houses, it might be in the twelfth) Failing all else, the Ascendant itself acts as the default (because by definition it must be in an aphetic place).

Once you have a Predominator (even if it's only the Ascendant) you then find it's ruler - that might be by sign, by exaltation, by Triplicity or by Bounds, depending on the author. The resulting planet is the Oikodespotes, assuming it, itself, is not badly placed. Clearly this is a complex process, but it's aimed at getting the best possible Oikodespotes for the nativity. You then use some method or other to see how long the life is; that's usually directing it, till it reaches the rays of a malefic (or killing planet in the Arab form).

Many of the Hellenistic authors, used Circumambulations, a precursor of Primary Directions, or they used ascension times of the signs for the location of the birth (you'll meet those later in Valens in Book III and Book IV).
Top   #118
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Oh I see


Then with my horoscope

(day birth)
ASC = 24 GEM
MC = 24 PIS

SUN = 26 SAG
MOO = 28 LIB
MER = 05 SAG
VEN = 29 CAP
MARS = 15 PISC
JUP = 00 SAG
SAT = 05 TAU

LOT of FORTUNE = 26 ARI

the Sun is likely to be the aphetic planet, though in the 7th. Still visible in the sky (so Sect Lord).

And if not the Sun , then Lot of Fortune since in the 11th.

One of their lords should be the Oikodespotes (spelling!)

Thanks Minderwiz. Very educational.

In a few pages more Valens has "(book 2, section) 27. Propitious and Impropitious Periods. The Length of Life Calculated from the Angles and the Signs Following the Angles." so all this should be useful
Top   #119
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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He sun is setting, so the Lot looks a better bet at this stage wulfd be the Lot, assuming that ends up the system you favour.

As you will see there's a lot of different systems at this time. It's very rich in methods but not as consistent as in thé later period.
Top   #120

 





 


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