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Study Notes: Valens Anthology

 




 
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Section 20: The Exaltation of the Sun and Moon and their effects on Prosperity.


Here Valens tells us how to calculate two more lots - The Exaltations of the Sun and Moon.

As I understand it (from reading about these on the internet) only one of these is actually calculated for each chart. The distance from the Sect Light to its exaltation degree is added to the ascendant.

Thus in my chart for example

ASC at 24 Gemini, Sun at 26 Sagittarius. Diurnal.

The distance from Sect Light (Sun, since I was born in the day) to its exaltation (19 Aries) is 123 degrees.Add this to the Ascendant and we get 27 degrees Libra, which is my Lot of Exaltation (of the Sun). Interestingly, this is almost exactly opposite my Lot of Fortune (26 Aries, natal 11th), conjunct my natal Moon (28 Libra) and falls in in my 5th (natal) Place is almost perfectly square my natal Sun.

(I have no idea how to intepret this. What does it mean for the exaltation of the Sun to be conjunct the Natal Moon? beats me!)

If I were born in the night with the same configuration, I'd add the distance from the Moon to 3 Taurus (its degree of exaltation) to my Ascendant.

Valens says "If it is found to be in the Ascendant or at MC, especially at an angle relative to the Lot, it indicates a royal chart, provided the other stars and procedures point to a basis of greatness for the nativity"

Ok so my Lot of Exaltation is not in the ascendant or MC (no 'basis o greatness) but it *is* at an angle relative to the Lot (7th) so I have a potentially "great" chart. I guess the "other stars and procedures" in my natal chart don't "point to a basis of greatness", since my royal crown and sceptre are nowhere in sight, LOL, not to speak of an overflowing treasury, which would be very useful LOL.

Valens deals with this right away (emphases mine)

"In addition, **if the nativity is of high rank**, and **if the exaltation or the house ruler is favourably situated**, the native will be exalted even beyond/to leadership, civil or royal office, or other distinguished positions of responsibility."

Ok since I was not born 'into high rank' and since in my case the house ruler (of Libra) is Venus, which is, sadly enough in Capricorn, the natal 8th (10th from Lot of Fortune). D'oh! No ultra exaltations for me! Sigh!


"If the basis of the nativity is average, and the ruler of the exaltation or the place itself is favourably situated, the native will be successful in the status to which he has been assigned: a craft, a science, or a talent. The house ruler itself and the sign will point out the type of good fortune to be expected, either from its own nature or from the sign in which it is located"

Ok let's try this out. My Exaltation Lot falls in 27 Libra, the natal 5th (and 7th from the Lot of Fortune). This is a succedent (as measured from the ascendant, angular as measured from the LoF) house, and the sign is Libra. So do I have a talent related to Libra (diplomacy?) that I can excel at? Sadly no, and I don't know how to interpret Venus in Capricorn as a craft,science or talent. I guess, in the end, mine is not (sadly!) a royal/exalted native chart at all! Ha!

In any case, once the chronocrator techniques are learned, it might be useful to find out when this lot gets activated, mediocre nativity or not!

I have to admit, I don't know what exactly the Lot of The Exaltation. *means*. The Lot of Fortune seems to indicate how Reality acts on you, in terms of good or bad luck. The Lot of Spirit seems to be (roughly) the way you act on the World.

What exactly does the Lot of Exaltation mean? From Valens's description it seems to indicate how 'not average' you are.
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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How to interpret Lot of Fortune placement


(ref: Valens book 2 material)

One of my friends has this natal config

ASC Taurus
Lord of Ascendant Venus in 10th Aquarius
Lot of Fortune in Aries (natal 12th)
Mars in Pisces (natal 11th)

again, i am not trying to get an accurate reading, (that would need the whole chart) or go very deep, just trying to integrate two view points

1. Starting with the sign containing the ascendant as the first place, The Lot of Fortune is in the 12th which Valens tags as a very bleak placement (Minderwiz elucidates this in some detail a few posts above). (This is true for my friend.He has a *very* hard life, with lots of bad luck and "you are your own worst enemy" dynamics). The Lord of the LoF is in the 11th.

So question 1: I'm not sure how to integrate this placement (of the Lord,11th) with that of the Lot(12th)

Now

2. Starting the count from the place of the Lot of Fortune is, the Lord of the Lot of Fortune Mars is in the 12th (from LoF).

By Minderwiz's (excellent) explanation of the interpretation of the places starting from the Lot (a couple of posts above) the 12th place from the Lord would be interpreted as the role Fortune place in natal 12th house affairs - imprisonment, secret enemies and so on. In other words, this would be an extra layer of meaning, focusing on the role of fortune about *natal 12th house*.

My question is
The natal 12th situation is pretty bleak (with LoF in the natal 12th). How does Lord of the LoF (Mars) in the 12th *from the LoF* add to this meaning? any reasonable interpretation will do. I"m just looking for a concrete example of meshing the two views (starting from the ascendant and LoF)
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Eminence


What you are beginning to touch on is deciding how eminent the native will be. Whether he or she will achieve great things or be somewhere in the middle or worse still live something of an abject life. The latter doesn't mean that he or she will spend it in poverty (though some of them may) but it does mean that they won't achieve anything of note, nor make much, if any, of an impression on society.

You have already seen the Trigon Lords of the Sect Light, as a starting point. You know something of the twelve places and their value to life (and which of them are conducive to business and which are idle places, where little of good happens).

You know of the Benefics and Malefics and the Lot of Fortune. A post or two ago we talked of the archetypal Lot as a synonym for Fortune. That can't be over stressed. In looking at Eminence, other Lots are judged in relation to their position relative to Fortune

The Second Lot is the Lot of Spirit - or Daimon as Valens frequently refers to it. It's not only a reflection of his or her character, their sould or the element of divinity in them. It's not an easy word to translate because it was used in a wide variety of contexts. We've taken it to mean how the native can effect the world around them but it's always subject to what Fate deals. There's another meaning, that which in modern terms, we might term 'Spirit Guide' The element of the Divine, personified, which helps us through life.

We've seen that the Lot of Spirit functions best if it's angular to Fortune (other things being equal) and that it's ruler is also well placed and indeed its ruler's ruler is well placed. Well placed not only in the natal chart, but also relative to Fortune.

The Lot of Exaltation is a third Lot (I'm not calling it the third lot in a definite sense of ranking but it's still very important in this context. The Lot gives some sense of how the native is going to prosper.

If it is found to be in the Ascendant or at MC, especially at an angle relative to the Lot, it indicates a royal chart, provided the other stars and procedures point to a basis of greatness for the nativity..

The Lot shows that the native will prosper and become an eminent member of society, indeed if he or she is born of royal or very rich parents, then they will reach the summit of society, or even become an Alexander and conquer the world. For births at a lower social strata, you will need to reduce the success level accordingly, though the ones with a really good position, may become very upwardly mobile. Again that will depend on outside circumstances - would Napoleon have reached such a position, had it not been for the Revolution, which was beyond his control and he did not author. Fate is still the most important factor, but the Lot of Exaltation in the Ascendant, MC, or angular to the Lot of Fortune, proclaims a likelihood of success.

Valens mentions the Lot of Exaltation in such a position but again, the placement of its ruler should be looked at in the same way as the ruler of the Lot of Spirit. The Lot shows how well the Sect Light shines on the person's life'

There is a further Lot, the Lot of Basis, which would also feed into the calculation of Eminence and the same principles of angularity relative to the natal chart and to Fortune apply. As does the consideration of its ruler. You will meet this in Chapter 24 of Book II. Where he also deals with ignoble births as well as notable and distinguised births.

I use the word calculation because the meaning of eminence isn't topical; it's a characteristic of life as a whole. One might argue that with the signature of eminence in the chart, that eminence will show one way or another, depending on the winds of Fate.

Valens is using this approach to identify the really high flyers of society. So yes, he is concerned not with how near average you are, but whether you make the top 1, 5, or 10 percent.

I'll perhaps comment in more detail after you've looked at Basis and read Chapter (or Section) 24.

But it's worth noting that eminence hasn't entirely dropped out of Astrology. Modern Astrologers wrestle with the principle when trying to forecast (wrongly) the outcome of US Presidential Elections. Valens would probably insist that the pay more attention to the Lot of Fortune and how everything else relates to it.
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Aha! Eminence as a 'frame' makes a *lot* (no pun) of sense


Quote:
Valens is using this approach to identify the really high flyers of society. So yes, he is concerned not with how near average you are, but whether you make the top 1, 5, or 10 percent.
This, as one of the first things to look for, explains much about how the aphorisms work. "will build cities, will raze them, be a king, etc etc". Hmm I wonder if this makes sense for the 'normal' horoscopes we encounter in the modern world, especially when doing non mundane astrology.

Yes it does make sense. Even if we don't encounter any "1 % " horoscopes, it makes sense to judge how much impact the native makes on the world. Most will be solidly in the 'middle' or even 'bottom' range, but that's fine. It is still a very important thing to look for.

Quote:
Valens would probably insist that the pay more attention to the Lot of Fortune and how everything else relates to it.
This has almost completely dropped out of modern astrology hasn't it. Even displaying the LoF is an option that has to be actively switched on in astrology software, and I haven't yet seen any astrologers (even the Hellenistic ones) pay as much attention to the Lots as Valens seems to recommend.

Some astrologers do give them *some* attention, but I doubt they do as thorough a job as Valens recommends. (though I also have to say, as can be seen in my post above, I haven't yet mastered how to integrate the results when reading from both ascendant and LoF)

Quote:
I use the word calculation because the meaning of eminence isn't topical; it's a characteristic of life as a whole. One might argue that with the signature of eminence in the chart, that eminence will show one way or another, depending on the winds of Fate.
*Very* Interesting. I would never have thought of this. This makes a lot of sense.

Thank You Minderwiz, you have given me much food for thought.
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Section 21: The Lot of Fortune and Daimon: Their influence on prosperity and Outcome


Many parts of this section are unclear. I'll mark them as I work through this section sentence by sentence.


Quote:
Lot of Fortune and Daimon have great influence on undertakings and their outcomes
So far so good.

Quote:
The former gives information about matters concerning the body and concerning the work of hands
\

It does?!
I thought the LoF was about Fortune/Luck. OK 'body' I can conceive of, since if the place of LoF is considered the first place, it talks about the impact of fortune/luck/things that happen to you on the body etc.

What is "the work of hands?"

Quote:
Daimon and its ruler give information about spiritual and intellectual matters ...
.

Hmm. ok. I thought the Daimon was about the impact one has on the world via one's own actions (vs the World acting on you via LoF). Ok but we can go with spirit and intellect too (the body being governed by Lot of Fortune).

So would taking Daimon's place as first tell us about our own efforts, as it affects (natal) 1st place matters? Or does it talk about our spirit + intellect? Confused .

Quote:
... and about the activities of giving and receiving
huh? What are *these*? Giving and receiving charity?

Quote:
It will be necessary to examine the places and the signs in which their house rulers are located and to correlate their natures, in order to learn the type of activity and fortune and the quality of activity [to be expected].
I think this mean "examine signs and places where the rulers of both Lots are in" Is the idea to find a type of activity the native can perform to manifest the potential of his Lot of Spirit?

Let me try with a concrete example.

In my horoscope, for example, Mars (ruler of Fortune) is in Pisces (sign) in the (natal) 10th(place), and Sun (ruler of Daimon) is in Sagittarius (sign) in the natal 7th (place). So both are in fire signs and angular (and so both aspect the first place ) . I wonder if the Lot of Fortune should be the starting point? A little confusing. I chose the ascendant because it would apply 'equally' to both lots (Fortune and Spirit)

A skilled astrologer can probably interpret this properly, but I'd say that both lot Lords are reasonably strongly placed in my chart (angular) and also fiery in nature. The Lot of Daimon (Sun in Sag with Jupiter also in Sag) is stronger. So I probably need to focus more on effort than fortune, and that in a very 'cardinal' manner, taking the initiative to drive things forward and pouring energy into these activities. Something like that.

Quote:
Nativities will be considered glorious, distinguished, and vigorous if they are from the Sun and Moon, and if benefics are in conjunction or incline to these places or house rulers.
I interpret this as saying that if the Lords of the Lots are either of the Lights, the native will be distinguished etc...

Quote:
The nativities from Saturn and Mars are mediocre, inglorious, ruined, or adverse.
ok, to make this concrete. again using my horoscope (diurnal Gemini rising). The lot of Fortune is in Aries, with Mars in Pisces. The Lot of Daimon is in Leo with the Sun in Sagittarius. So the Lot of Daimon indicates some possibility of excellence, and the Lot of Fortune, mediocrity.

Quote:
It is best to find the ruler of Daimon at the Lot of Fortune or at its 10th Place (=Midheaven).

If so,...
i.e if the Ruler of Daimon is in the same place as the Lot of Fortune or its 10th, i.e the 10th, counting from the Lot of Fortune,

Quote:
....then the nativities are illustrious and distinguished.
This makes sense. I interpret the Lot of Daimon in the 10th from the Lot of Fortune as saying that the native's efforts fully manifest (since in the 10th from LoF) what Fortune brings him.

Quote:
If it is in its proper place or at another angle,...
I assume the "it" refers to the Lot of Daimon

so the sentence can be interpreted as " if the Lot of Daimon is angular *with reference to the Lot of Fortune* or at least not in 2,6,8,12 as measured from the Lot of Fortune then.."

Quote:
... the nativities will be as distinguished and vigorous as they can be under the circumstances. If it is turned away from its proper place,
I think this talks about Lot of Daimon being inconjunct to Lot of Fortune, so in 2,6,8, 12 from LOF

Quote:
or just precedes an angle,
i.e Lot of Daimon is cadent (3,6,9,12) with respect to Lot of Fortune.

Quote:
or(if the Lot of Daimon) has malefics in aspect, it indicates exile and distress abroad. If it is in conjunction with a benefic or has benefics in aspect, the native will live abroad for a long time, having a varied and fluctuating livelihood.
This is clear (though a bit extreme. many people will have the Lot of Spirit in these 4 places!) and so is

Quote:
If it (the Lot of Daimon) has a malefic in aspect, the native will become needy, destitute, experiencing trials and imprisonment
yeow.

Quote:
Likewise if [the ruler of the Lot (of Fortune?) or of Daimon] is in opposition to this place,
ok "this place" is a little confusing, but I **think** it means the place of the Lot of the Daimon. (Could it mean the Lot of Fortune's place?) So it means "if either the Ruler of Fortune or the Ruler of Spirit opposes the place of Lot of Spirit, then ..."

Quote:
..it indicates men who reside abroad and become distressed. Often the goods of such men are not inherited by their own families, but by strangers.
Ha! Not good at all. I looked through my small collection of horoscopes and no one has this combination.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
.... I thought the LoF was about Fortune/Luck. OK 'body' I can conceive of, since if the place of LoF is considered the first place, it talks about the impact of fortune/luck/things that happen to you on the body etc.

.... What is "the work of hands?"

... Hmm. ok. I thought the Daimon was about the impact one has on the world via one's own actions (vs the World acting on you via LoF). Ok but we can go with spirit and intellect too (the body being governed by Lot of Fortune).

So would taking Daimon's place as first tell us about our own efforts, as it affects (natal) 1st place matters? Or does it talk about our spirit + intellect? Confused .
In a work by Plutarch, he attributes source of the body to the Earth, that of the the Soul to the Moon and that of the Mind to the Sun. That tripartite division reflects a view of Fate is essentially the soul of the Cosmos divided into three each ruled by one of the three Moirai: [

I]Clothos[/I] deals with that part which is represented by the non-wandering stars, i.e. that part beyond the Sun and the planets - which is the realm of the Gods. Atropos deals with the Sun and the planets that lie beyond the Moon, and Lachesis deals with the Sub-lunar realm, that is the Earth.

In Valens' Astrology, (and indeed in that of most of the other Hellenistic authors, the Sun signifies nous, understanding or the directed mind, The intellect. The Moon signifies the physical body and the Soul or the Life Force together with Fortune or what happens to the body and soul. The Astrologers drew out more through the Lot of the Moon, or as we know it, the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of the Sun, or as we know it the Lot of Spirit (the Lot of the Daimon for Valens). Spiritual matters should not be taken as simply a religious expression (though it's not entirely divorced from it. Spirit requires the life force to be directed to a goal or end. That might well be achieving a trade deal, making a career in the Media, or writing works on philosophy. Spirit requires action directed to that goal and action is the main characteristic of a Daimon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon
huh? What are *these*? Giving and receiving charity?
Daimons, whether good or bad are concerned with action. The tenth Place is often referred to as the Place of Action It's what we do in trade in inter-relationships with others, in negotiation but also in doing things to achieve ends. Such action requires giving and receiving. Just thing of the buying and selling example and you'll see clearly that buying involves receiving what you have paid for, the later being the giving of money. By Lilly's time the Lot of Spirit is closely concerned with career and how we earn a living.

[quote=RohanMenon
I think this mean "examine signs and places where the rulers of both Lots are in" Is the idea to find a type of activity the native can perform to manifest the potential of his Lot of Spirit?[/quote]

It is more concerned with capacity than specific actions, though the two are again not entirely divorced. What you are doing is assessing the ability of the Native to make a name for him/herself.

However, that process may also help in identifying the type of career that will follow. Three key planets tend to show career, Mercury, Mars and Venus and by the time you've read Lilly, you'll be very familiar with the occupations attached to each one. However their are also careers identified with Jupiter (usually judicial or administrative) and Saturn (usually labour of some sort, especially working with Lead and metals. Rhetorius at the end of the Hellenistic period is very good on this but I think at this point Valens is more concerned with capacity to be successful at what you try to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon

i.e if the Ruler of Daimon is in the same place as the Lot of Fortune or its 10th, i.e the 10th, counting from the Lot of Fortune,....



This makes sense. I interpret the Lot of Daimon in the 10th from the Lot of Fortune as saying that the native's efforts fully manifest (since in the 10th from LoF) what Fortune brings him.
This works on several levels. The first and obvious one, is that Daimon is associated with the Sun and the Sun signifies rulership. Daimon is also associated with Action and the tenth is the Place of Action. However at a secondary level, as we've seen a planet in the tenth dominates a planet in the first (the square to the left in the order of signs). By analogy, Daimon in the tenth shows a mind that can dominate the soul and the body. The life force is not dissipated by poorly thought out actions.


I assume the "it" refers to the Lot of Daimon

so the sentence can be interpreted as " if the Lot of Daimon is angular *with reference to the Lot of Fortune* or at least not in 2,6,8,12 as measured from the Lot of Fortune then.."


Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon
I think this talks about Lot of Daimon being inconjunct to Lot of Fortune, so in 2,6,8, 12 from LOF....

....i.e Lot of Daimon is cadent (3,6,9,12) with respect to Lot of Fortune.
In the latter case, where Valens refers to the Places that decline from an angle (cadent houses); it's worth knowing that the Greek world regarded travel abroad as a risky and dangerous business. There's obviously the physical risks of being set on by robbers or by pirates, by untrustworthy local rulers, or contracting nasty diseases. But the Greeks liked home. Being abroad is undesirable for the very reason that you are no longer at home, where you belong and know the people.

All cadent houses were assoicated with travel. But the quality varied. In the twelfth or the sixth the quality was very bad because these places are averse to the Ascendant. They are not the place of Bad Fortune and the place of the Bad Spirit, for nothing.

On the other hand, the third and the ninth are connected to the Ascendant by aspects, a sextile for the third and a trine for the ninth. These give a metaphorical link to home and one which is a happy aspect.

Proper place means either the domicile (Sign) ruled by a planet, or one of it's other dignities. Hence Valens' use of in its proper place or at another angle. If the ruler of the Lot of Spirit is in its own dignity that is very good, but it it has no contact with one of its dignities, things are not good. The Lord of Spirit Peregrine and making no aspect into one of its domiciles or its exaltation is not good. Treat domicile as being by far the best place to be, or at an angle to Fortune. If the Lord of Fortune isn't in either of these places, it is still reasonably OK if it's in one of its dignities but if it isn't and it doesn't aspect one its domiciles then things are not good.
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Thank You Minderwiz for a great reply


I begin to see what you said in another thread about Valens's system (and Hellenistic astrology in general) being very sophisticated philosophically. I learned a tremendous amount from this answer, and have much to think about. Onwards!
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Book 2 Section 22: The 11th place from Lot of Fortune and its influence on prosperity


Valence says the 11th place starting from the LoF is the "place of accomplishment, the bestower of Goods especially if the benefics are in place or aspect"

A brief description for each planet being in this place or aspecting it, or ruling it

Sun, Jupiter and Venus being in this place provide gold, jewellry, and very great property, as well as gifts from kings

The Moon and Mercury (in this place) brings ups and downs of livelihood, bringing changes and sometimes making men liberal and generous, at other times needy and burdened with debts. This happens because the Moon waxes and wanes (so is changeable) and Mercury shares the qualities of good and bad (depending on how he is situated in the horoscope and with whom, a known astrological fact).

Mars takes away what was gained and possessed, causing reductions, thefts, burning, trials, confiscations for royal and public use, or proscriptions and condemnations. If the nativity is in government (??) or otherwise distinguished, men will become successful from violent or dangerous action, or from theft provided that Mars is in his proper (see Minderwiz's previous post for a good definition of 'proper') place. Even then Mars makes this occupation risky and can cause losses.

Saturn when configured in proper place makes men rulers of estates and property. If out of sect and in the wrong places brings disaster, ruin, poverty, shipwreck, debt.

Saturn and Mars at MC or rising after MC indicates exile. Valens says that it is not just the Stars influencing this place that determines the outcome, but the sign itself (no examples)

My takeaway - after examining and interpreting the Lots of Fortune and Diamon from an overall life perspective, look at this place (the 11th from the Lot of Fortune) and interpret it as a 'place of fulfilment'.
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I understand that in Valens' time there was a cult of a daimon called Zeus Ktesios, because of his link to Zeus, he was associated with the eleventh place. He was often adopted as a household daimon and one of his functions (gifts?) was to help the family ensure that there were sufficient provisions and that they would not go hungry. There's a link to the acquisition of those provsions from that daimon, and that might be part of the derivation of Valens' meaning for the place.

You should also be aware that Fortune and Spirit (Tuche and Daimon) are inextricably linked. Indeed they are opposite sides the same coin - almost literally as their calculations involve the difference between the positions of Sun and Moon in the chart, projected from the Ascendant (but in opposite directions). Just harking back to the point about Spirit's position relative to Fortune; If someone is born at a New Moon (or very close to it), they have both Lots in their first house. A position of strength. At Full Moon they have both Lots in the Descendant.

Valens also sees Spirit taking on the role of Fortune if that Lot and it's ruler are so poorly situated as to be useless. The native will find a way to make something of his or her life, even if it isn't particularly good.
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Quote:
Valens also sees Spirit taking on the role of Fortune if that Lot and it's ruler are so poorly situated as to be useless. The native will find a way to make something of his or her life, even if it isn't particularly good.
I wonder if it should be " the native may..." or "the native can ..." I have some horoscopes where Fortune is badly situated, Spirit is well situated, but the former seems to have predominated (and the life goes to hell and which could be or could have been retreived by correct effort, but wasn't). I'm wondering if the Lot of Spirit is something that should be actively nurtured (not to get too much into 21st century psychobabble/free will, just trying to explain these horoscopes)

Quote:
If someone is born at a New Moon (or very close to it), they have both Lots in their first house. A position of strength. At Full Moon they have both Lots in the Descendant.
This is very interesting. I think one of my friends was born at the Full Moon. I'll look at this chart to see how the Lots influence his life. The Full Moon should indicate some kind of eminence too correct? (other things being equal)
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