2 of Cups - Where are they standing?

Margo9023

LRichard

I don't know about the road, although it may very well be. The lion is an alchemical symbol, referring to the union of opposites, as Waite says in the PKT: "above their cups rises the Caduceus of Hermes, between the great wings of which there appears a lion's head. It is a variant of a sign which is found in a few old examples of this card. Some curious emblematical meanings are attached to it, but they do not concern us in this place."

Now, obviously this card speaks of Love, but as a lower numbered card, that love is still abstract and unformed. A crush, perhaps, passionate but of little practical value. The house is still far off probably because the two are in love, but they do not actually love each other (yet).

The astrological decans are not shown on the Rider-Waite pips, but here is the table from Book T.

Hi LRichard! Thank you so much for taking the time to getting me this information. I really appreciate it. I'm going to print it out and read it. Yes, I couldn't find them on any of my cards - "Astrological decans are not shown on the Rider-Waite pips".
 

Richard

.......The lion is an alchemical symbol, referring to the union of opposites, as Waite says in the PKT: "above their cups rises the Caduceus of Hermes, between the great wings of which there appears a lion's head. It is a variant of a sign which is found in a few old examples of this card. Some curious emblematical meanings are attached to it, but they do not concern us in this place."........
That final sentence is fascinating (or maybe I mean frustrating). It's an evasive tactic sometimes used by Waite when matters pertain to the Tree of Life. Here is a plausible explanation, I think. The (winged) lion is the kerubic representation of Fire, and Fire is the element of the Supernal Father, Chokmah (wisdom), the 2nd Sephirah, which is the home of the Tarot deuces. Perhaps it is a subtle reminder that in spite of the femininity of the 2 of Cups (Venus in watery Cancer ruled by the Moon), the card lives in Chokmah, the Sephirah of masculine creativity.
 

Zephyros

It really is a fascinating sentence, considering that in this card we have an example of very blatant Hermetic symbolism, a rarity in the deck as a whole and in the minors in particular. I can't recall offhand another example as loudmouthed as this one, although perhaps the Ten of Pentacles is one. It is as though Waite gives you just enough to get you hooked, but then tells you what you see before your eyes is meaningless.

You put it very nicely, and I also see an allusion to the Magician's table here. I know there was a debate about this, but in my view the table shows sulfur, salt and mercury as the base (table) upon which rest the four elements. If we assume all creation is a result of the alchemical marriage (love is what makes the world go 'round!) this card becomes all the more important, showing one of the most primal forces, attraction; sulfur and salt united by mercury, with fire (perhaps an allusion to Temperance) breaking down separations.

All that taken into account could explain Waite's relative, yet fearful, indiscretion. He can really be a blabbermouth at times, one just has to look for it.
 

Richard

BTW, the Universal Waite by Mary Hanson-Roberts is just a cleaned-up rendering of the standard Rider-Waite deck.

As Abrac mentioned, the 2 of Cups is a stage card. The couple is standing on a stage, and the landscape in the background is supposed to be a painted backdrop for the scene.
 

Richard

It really is a fascinating sentence, considering that in this card we have an example of very blatant Hermetic symbolism, a rarity in the deck as a whole and in the minors in particular. I can't recall offhand another example as loudmouthed as this one, although perhaps the Ten of Pentacles is one.......
The alchemical symbolism of the 2 of Cups, while totally appropriate, is so shockingly blatant that it almost seems out of place. It's totally weird in comparison to most of the other pips, which are relatively ho-hum.

It's funny how the 10 of Pents is so "in your face" with the Tree of Life. It's almost as if here, in the final pip of the deck, Malkuth in Assiah, Waite is finally saying: "This is really what it's all about, folks."
 

Zephyros

The alchemical symbolism of the 2 of Cups, while totally appropriate, is so shockingly blatant that it almost seems out of place. It's totally weird in comparison to most of the other pips, which are relatively ho-hum.

http://images.wikia.com/theinternetbox/images/9/9b/Watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

I love it when these things are described as "shocking" or other dramatic words. Relatively few people would describe it that way, and it makes me feel all fuzzy inside. :)

But yes, Waite wouldn't go so far out of his way to depict what is in the card if he didn't feel that it was of such superlative importance. It might even be referring to Knowledge and Conversation, which Waite (probably) attained, coming from the Golden Dawn as he did, which takes place (i believe) at the intersection of Strength (Leo) and the High Priestess. Perhaps the "stage-ness" of it is referencing some initiatory ritual, the basis for which is Love.

Still, that's kind of raping the card, and the Lion as Sulphur makes more sense and is less taxing to the brain.
 

Richard

http://images.wikia.com/theinternetbox/images/9/9b/Watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

I love it when these things are described as "shocking" or other dramatic words. Relatively few people would describe it that way, and it makes me feel all fuzzy inside. :)

But yes, Waite wouldn't go so far out of his way to depict what is in the card if he didn't feel that it was of such superlative importance. It might even be referring to Knowledge and Conversation, which Waite (probably) attained, coming from the Golden Dawn as he did, which takes place (i believe) at the intersection of Strength (Leo) and the High Priestess. Perhaps the "stage-ness" of it is referencing some initiatory ritual, the basis for which is Love.

Still, that's kind of raping the card, and the Lion as Sulphur makes more sense and is less taxing to the brain.
The KCHGA idea is not too farfetched. In Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford's interview by Augury Today (AT, Aeclectic Tarot? :)) there is the following exchange:

AT: How do we attain union with our Holy Guardian Angel?

LBC: You do it by falling head-over-heels in love with love. You do it by using your inner imagination to create the Diety in the image of your most ideal lover, and then surrendering yourself completely and unconditionally.​
 

ravenest

Typically Waite IMO

There are basic keys to the understanding of everything you both just wrote ...

... " but they do not concern us in this place."........ })
 

Richard

There are basic keys to the understanding of everything you both just wrote ...

... " but they do not concern us in this place."........ })
LOL! Absolutely! :D
 

Margo9023

Abrac

Okay I see where I screwed up. That second picture I posted is the Aquatic Tarot, that explains all the water. :laugh: Its link is right below the Universal Waite link at Albideuter. I could have sworn I clicked the Universal Waite link but maybe not, sorry for the confusion.

The Aquatic has the Golden Dawn decan attributions, slightly hidden.

Hi Abrac,
Sorry, for replying so late today.
Oh Wow! Now, I really like this Aquatic Tarot. And, it's OOP. : (