78DW: The Minor Arcana (Part 2 Intro)

Sorry for the long absence, all! I have so many projects going again that poor R.P. got sent to the back burner for a while.

Going through the cards starting with the Fool seemed to be getting bogged down, (okay, maybe that was just me! ) so I thought I'd jump to R.P.'s discussion of the four Minor Arcana suits. Here's a summary of her major points.

• Older decks used Wands, Swords, Cups, and Coins. Waite chose Pentacles instead of Coins because of the Pentacles' connection with magic, and therefore with magical elements. This aspect is emphasized by the Magician's table, which holds an emblem of each suit.
• The year being divided into four seasons by two solstices and two equinoxes.
• R.P. gives the following suit/element connections: Wands=Fire, Cups=Water, Swords=Air, Pentacles=Earth.
• The zodiac contains 12 constellations divided into four groups of three: Fire = Aries, Leo, Sagittarius; Water = Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces; Air = Gemini, Libra, Aquarius; Earth = Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn.
• Jungian psychology uses the four elements to show the ways humans experience the world: Fire = Intuition; Water = Feeling; Air = Thinking; Earth = Sensation.
• Wands & Swords represent 'yang' or 'active' situations, while Cups & Pentacles represent 'yin' or 'passive' ones. I like how she mentions that you can substitute Magician for 'yang' and High Priestess for 'yin'.
• The elements also stand for the four letters of the Tetragrammaton, or the 'unpronouncable' Hebrew name of God: Yod-Fire; Heh-Water, Vav-Air, Heh-Earth.
• R.P.'s brief summary of the aspects of your life which each suit deals with: Wands/Fire=action, movement, optimism, business in the sense of commerce rather than things sold, beginnings. Cups/Water=reflection, quiet experiences, love, friendship, fantasy, passivity. Swords/Air=conflict angry or disturbed emotions, sadness, but also mental activity, wisdom, intellect. Pentacles/Earth=nature, money, work, routine activities, business in the sense of things made and sold, the magic of nature.

Wow! That's a lot to cover! And I haven't even gotten to the general meanings R.P. gives to the numbers of the Minor Arcana cards. We can do that in the next thread, I'm thinking.

So...What aspects of the associations shown here do you see in the deck you're working with? Does your deck have different associations? How does the relationships between the four suits in your deck express itself?

Peace,

Melvis

Hi Melvis, welcome back! Thanks for posting this ~jots down her homework~.

In addition to this post of yours, I think I will go ahead and create a thread on her 2nd grouping of the Major Arcana (when I can) as I personally found that really helpful. Looking at several majors at a time and seeing how they are viewed with the different decks. I agree with you that going card by card can be cumbersome, but the groupings Rachel Pollock uses sheds some light on things and I know will help Kaz and I in our discussion of the Templar (we are exploring this deck together).

I may need your help on creating a little exercise, you do a great job of making useful exercises for us!

i have thought up something i need to draw first, havent done that yet.
hope to get it done this week.

kaz

IS IT ?

Is this where I can jump in for the study group ?
I was in the used bookstore, hoping but not expecting to find this book that ya'all been talking about. Lucky me or just syncronicity, The book I got is part two and now the disscusion for part two starts. Am I wrong do I need to go elsewhere ? Now what ?

Luna, jump in whenever you want, welcome !!!
i don't know what your part2 book covers, but you are always welcome to participate, posting on older topics is no problem, we will feedback those as well.
just jump in

kaz

PART 2

My book covers the minor arcana and spreads.
I have the introduction that corrisponds to what
melvis wrote. I have done my home work, but this thread has been very quiet....
HELLO.....HELlo....helloo...oo...oo

Just a note on Melvis's first post, pertaining to the information in his first bullet:

According to Decker, DePaulis and Dummett in "A Wicked Pack of Cards," Waite's use of the name "pentacles" for the suit of coins was a deliberate mis-translation of Eliphas Levi's term, "pantacles." When Levi used the word he meant "talismans," not five-point stars, which in French are "pentagrammes."

To quote further, Decker et. al. claim that "Waite simply left the word 'pantacle' untranslated, with the inevitable result that British readers thought it meant 'pentacle.' Waite exploited the misunderstanding for which he had been responsible by calling the suit 'Pentacles' and requiring Pamela Coleman Smith to place pentacles on the suit signs in the famous Tarot pack which she designed on his instructions." (p. 47)

Just my opinion -- the proper name of the suit is coins, as it was in the Arabic deck Europeans inherited from the Muslims. I also feel the suited cards, the so-called minor arcana, have no intrinsic symbolic meaning, as they are really only a deck of playing cards which was adapted to tarot by the addition to them of the trumps and the Fool. If they have any symbolic meaning at all, it would be a tenuous connection with the Arthurian legends via the addition of the four queens.

Respectfully,
Dave B
(Catboxer)

Well I can't find my notes..bummer.
One thing that was food for thought was the applications; Intuition, Feeling, Thinking, Sensation.
Feeling and sensation, arn't they sorta the same thing. Feeling could be the sensation you get when
you hit your thumb with a hammer(physical). Feeling could be happy because you became
a grandparent(emotional) I had to look sensation up in the dictionary..
DEF. impression made through the senses(physical); feeling; power of feeling;
what produces excited interest...
How do these Two applications differ ? Is feeling the emotional and sensation the physical ?
I have my four basics:
Emotional Mental Spiritual Physical
my two decks
NA* emotional intellectual spiritual material
LAT* emotional thinking spiritual material
R/W feeling thinking intuition sensation

would that be the proper equivalents ?
* NA Native American Tarot
*LAT Legend Arthurian Tarot

Melvis. said:

So...What aspects of the associations shown here do you see in the deck you're working with? Does your deck have different associations? How does the relationships between the four suits in your deck express itself?

Melvis

Click to expand...

I found Dictionary of the Tarot by Bill Butler(1975) at the same time as RP's book at the used book shop
In his book he lists several decks and the meanings for individual suits and cards. Perfect answer to this question.

used book shop

a few of you are talking about the used bookshop where do I find that I am enjoying all the information so far you all seem very friendly and helpful

~Dusts the cobwebs off of her copy of 78 DW~

Hi Lunalafey, to answer your question of the "part 1" "part 2" thing, 78 DW was orginally written in 2 volumes, with part 1 being the Majors and part 2 the Minors (which you have). Later on a combined volume came out. I have the combined version, but I believe the material should be essentially the same with only a few minor modifications. You can start in this group any where you feel comfortable.

Spiritlady, I see you are in Australia. I do not know where you could go. Is there an Amazon.com AUS? I get a lot of used books from Amazon.com.

----------------------
About the minors in my deck: Cosmic Tribe

My deck uses Disks instead of Coins or Pentacles. The elemental correspondences however do follow those of Ms. Pollock's book. There is absolutly nothing quiet, passive or subtle about this deck *LOL*. The imagery used conveys the message, but in a more upfront manner at times (tons of bright colors). The use of the 4 elements is very clear in the suits and that helps interpret the overall meaning of the cards. I would say overall my deck follows Ms. Pollock's associations.