A Walk in the Wood...cuts, the Marseilles

Bernice

Originally posted by Starlightexp:.... I thought the best way to approach the deck would be by color first, see if that brings any insight to the kinda homely looking card. Bam….did it ever. My brain hurts with just the use of color right now. Here is what I came up with based on just the colors:

Le Fov- The Fool can be seen at the beginning or the end of the journey and fits both. His bag is green in color representing the hope he carries with him, but to bring that hope he carries it on a staff that is red meaning that it is the hope that comes from pain, maybe loss (?). He has his battle scars, the blue in his collar lets us know that but he is still hopeful as it is ringed in green. Kinda one of those eternally optimistic persons. He path too is hopeful but a long and not without pain as seen in his red shoes. He carries with him the yellow staff of perseverance with him and the yellow also lets us know he has set his sites firm on the future. Following him along and ‘getting his attention’ is a little creature of awareness and understanding, while the fools tunic is one of a growing awareness this little creature is there to make sure he stays on task...or not.


That’s my first pass at the card. It’s not the more happy-go-lucky Fool of the RWS or the Cosmic Egg of the Thoth it’s a more world weary Fool but one that has his wits and will keep on trucking. Now I’m almost obsessed with this image of the Fool…..
So you're really trying to find a divinatory meaning for the trump cards in the Marseilles decks? And you begin with the Le Fov/TheFool.

The question is, are you approaching this historically, 'cos this is the History Forum, or on purely visual terms regardless of the history?

If you read the Forum Contents here you will find threads which discuss the trumps individually on a historical basis, and also threads which explore ways of 'reading' with these early decks;

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31857


Bee :)
 

EnriqueEnriquez

nicky said:
Which means *gasp* there is no system ...beyond one we find works for us personally. Wow.

Traditionally, reading the tarot has been about misreading it.

Either if we are talking about the occultist’s take that emerged with Court de Gebelin, or if we go further back to Folengo and the tarocchi appropriati tradition, finding meaning in the cards has consisted on going beyond the limits of their iconographic intention.

A tarot reading works because the human brain is a pattern-seeking organ. Whatever we are told, any kind of information we receive, is automatically processed by the brain and made fit our current experience. Just as our stomach would extract nutrients from anything we swallow, our brain makes order from chaos in order to help us find survival strategies. A good symbolic schema is the one who provides the reader with a swift way to craft narratives, so the client’s brain perceives no contradictions in the pattern; but since ‘the main behind the curtain’ is the client’s brain, one coherent schema will be as good as the next one, and the reader’s eloquence will be better than both. In the medical business, doctors usually say that when there are several treatments for an illness that means none of them really works. I guess the same thing can be said about symbolic schemes applied to the cards. Colors are specially tricky. An example of that would be the Jean Dodal deck, whose only two surviving copies, one at the National Library in Paris and the other one at the British museum, are virtually identical except for the colors. It would be hard to establish then a definitive communicative purpose in these color choices.

This is not to say that there is no right meaning for the cards. From an iconographic point of view, these images have a very specific representational intention. A good starting point would be Francesco Piscina’s text from 1565:

http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Francesco_Piscina_Discorso_1565

After all, reading the Tarot is one thing, but learning about it is another different matter.


All my Best,


EE
 

Bernice

EE: After all, reading the Tarot is one thing, but learning about it is another different matter.
I'm in full agreement EE :).

But this discussion is taking place in the History forum where reading approaches are best undertaken with tarot history in mind. And an iconographic point of view can be a very good starting point. Many thanks for the link EE :thumbsup:

Bee :)
 

sapienza

I know the Fournier doesn't have a lot of fans around here but I rather like it if I'm in the mood for some colour. :)
 

eltarot78

Years ago, the first Tarot I met was the Fournier.
Who start me in this way, presenting it at night, the candlelight and a glass of wine in hand.
That feeling so unique, he experienced a sensation similar to the Dodal (today).

Although as I said in another post, when you read very extensive background, colors Fournier take importance in the visualization of the flow of energies (bah, I see things, which serve him, not daring to miss a thing this experience).
 

nicky

Magician

Not sure if the coloring is modern or not, but on my guy his pant legs are different colors, as are his shoes. His looks to his right, with an odd expression on his face. I am trying to figure out what he has on his table... I can guess at the cup, a bell (from the Fool's hat?), a small knife, the rest are objects I cannot determine clearly. The point is probably, not each specific item, but the idea of a conjurer. Someone who pulls tricks out of the air, or a flim flam man perhaps. He stands firm, in spite of the uneven ground while holding his wand up, ready to begin his slight of hand. Perhaps this type of character is not all sham... I would imagine small villages delighted when he came around to entertain.
 

nicky

Hp

This High Priestess has quite the ornate hat...more impressive then the Pope's later in this deck. She sits with her open book in lap and looks out with eyes that appear heavy lidded and with bags below. Normally I would think heavy bags would indicate age and experience but perhaps it is a woodcut way to add expression...too new to know how these work just yet. I notice her cloak is fastened from one shoulder to near the other covering her heart. With the high hat and the covered heart, this could be a card to warn about using your mind not your emotions. Behind her is a drape of some kind which looks perhaps like part of a wing backed chair. The book in her lap is open and accessible.
 

conversus

In the Tarot de Marseille the second of the Trumps is not called the High Priestess. She may in fact be a vestigial memory of such a figure, but that is not her name. The Image is patient of an interpretation that dovetails with the RWS, etc. High Priestess, but the TdM Popess represents a more expansive figure than Arthur or Al were interested in promoting.



CED
 

nicky

conversus said:
In the Tarot de Marseille the second of the Trumps is not called the High Priestess. She may in fact be a vestigial memory of such a figure, but that is not her name.

My TdM has her title as High Priestess.

conversus said:
The Image is patient of an interpretation that dovetails with the RWS, etc. High Priestess, but the TdM Popess represents a more expansive figure than Arthur or Al were interested in promoting.

Great! How so?
 

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