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Caitlin Matthews' Complete Lenormand Oracle vs Enchanted Lenormand Oracle

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Originally Posted by EmpyreanKnight View Post
I have heard more accolades than the opposite regarding Matthews Lenormand oeuvre so I'm leaning towards it myself, MissChiff. But was the Enchanted set your first Lenny? Would you say that the book/booklet in it was very informative to you as a beginner, or did you initially learn the Lenormand through another source?
I began learning on YouTube. As you know it can get pretty confusing,so I decided to get a book and deck together, the Matthews one was what I purchased.
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Originally Posted by DownUnderNZer View Post
I got the set out and it is actually a deck with a book. The book has just the single card meanings and a number of spreads etc. I did not have a proper read at all and it is the first time I have really looked at it.

Rana George follows the French system. She has her own style based around it I believe. I saw one short demo she did and I did not mind it. The only time I ever saw her interact on another site she did not know the German or Brazilian systems. Not sure about now. That may have changed.

Andy B follows the German system.

Louis looks at traditional, core, and alternate meanings.

Looking at "Birds" it seems to follow the "German" and likely "Dutch" as that is a cross between systems. He even does the "Dondorf" meanings it seems. I think more so German actually.

Louis is one to read for sure. With Andy B you will see how harsh the cards can be not just the light side of it. He use to be on AT and was very strong about the way he saw the Lenormand and in a very "traditional" way.

I still prefer the French system.


DND
Oh so there are many Lenormand systems! All I initially knew were the French, German, and Hungarian, but now there's also a Dondorf, Brazilian, and Dutch. It's a good thing you guys are so helpful as to straighten that out. Were any of these systems offshoots of the others, like did the Dondorf come from the German, etc.?

From what you said, Rana follows the French system, but she tempers it with her personal style, which is not so off course that you find it objectionable. Louis is useful since he compares different systems. Andy B strictly follows the German tradition.

One advice that I keep getting is that beginners should keep to one system at first, learn it and master it before even delving into other schools. So I guess if this is the best criterion to use in choosing the book where one should begin, since Andy's is the most "pure", his book would be best for one starting out?

I have always read that the Lenormand is a straightforward, no-frills divinatory tool in the beginning, and that it's only recently when the fad started to churn that gurus wishing to add "value" to their own version of the Lenny that it began to lose its focus. Maybe Andy's strict adherence to the traditional German school is what a beginner needs to build a solid base of knowledge so to speak before delving on the other systems?
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Originally Posted by MissChiff View Post
I began learning on YouTube. As you know it can get pretty confusing,so I decided to get a book and deck together, the Matthews one was what I purchased.
That's why I'm a bit apprehensive of all the resources I see in the internet. Not because I doubt their material, but because they may follow different schools mixed with the owner's personal style. From what I gleaned, we should:

1. Choose the Lenormand system we wish to follow at least initially in order to build a clear and stable foundation of knowledge

2. Find resources that would support this system. Your primary sources must closely adhere to the system tho not really to the point of being dogmatic.

3. Find supporting sources that should still be primarily based on this system but can be given some leeway in terms of the creator's personal interpretations. This would teach you to develop your own style later, molding your knowledge base into something more personal, more immediate, and thence more useful.

4. Only then can you go into other sources that explore other Lenormand systems.

Thank you all, I'm learning so much here.

One other thing I'm curious about is which Lenny system does Matthews follow.
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Originally Posted by EmpyreanKnight View Post
To those who have Caitlin Matthews' The Complete Lenormand Oracle book and her Enchanted Lenormand Oracle set, is the former just an extended version of the companion book found in the latter, or does the latter offer insights not found in the former?
I have both. The book is much, much more informative than the booklet. I really enjoy it. I donīt find itīs meanings "harsh" like Andy Bīs book although she teaches in one chapter how to read near and far, but I do not practice it. (Those meanings can get rather harsh) She teaches how to read with the playing cards in two chapters, a lot about GT and other spreads, she has a lot of examples and exercises after every chapter. I like her book.

That said, I started with Rana George, and am glad I did.
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Originally Posted by DownUnderNZer View Post
With Andy B you will see how harsh the cards can be not just the light side of it. He use to be on AT and was very strong about the way he saw the Lenormand and in a very "traditional" way.
When I was first learning Lenormand, I found Andy B's style one of doom and gloom. But then I realized that life isn't always the of bed of roses we hope for. I love Rana's style of reading, but at times felt I was steering too far off the mark with her very intuitive reading style. Andy B teaches the bare-bones basics and that is something I need to keep me grounded.
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Originally Posted by DownUnderNZer View Post
I can think of one book that should perhaps be written, but it would not be about what all the others have written to date on the Lenormand in different languages.
Do tell!
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Originally Posted by Genna View Post
I have both. The book is much, much more informative than the booklet. I really enjoy it. I donīt find itīs meanings "harsh" like Andy Bīs book although she teaches in one chapter how to read near and far, but I do not practice it. (Those meanings can get rather harsh) She teaches how to read with the playing cards in two chapters, a lot about GT and other spreads, she has a lot of examples and exercises after every chapter. I like her book.

That said, I started with Rana George, and am glad I did.
Thanks Genna! Just some questions tho: if you already have the Complete Lenormand book which I heard can be pretty tough for beginners, would you still recommend getting the Enchanted set so that its booklet can ease you into the lessons of the Complete book? Or are all the stuff in the Enchanted booklet fully covered in the Complete book so that it would be redundant to get it?

When you said she teaches you how to read playing cards in two chapters, were you referring to the playing card inserts in most Lenormand decks, or do you mean that the book teaches you plain divination using separate playing card decks i.e. cartomancy? My apologies if that seems like a weird non sequitur question, but some Tarot books do go off on weird tangents so I just have to ask. And also, would you know which Lenormand system/s Matthews follows?

I also have Rana's book. Do they follow different systems? Do their styles clash? Sorry for having so many questions.
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Caitlin Matthews : Belgium I think or Deutsch. She uses MOON for work although I do not know where I got that or why I think it. Must be that I spotted it on AT as have never interacted with her or opened that box set up until last night. But just to see what was in it really.

Might be thinking of someone else.

"Dondorf" are cards as far as I know and probably a place name or something. Not sure about a country.


DND
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Originally Posted by Village Witch View Post
When I was first learning Lenormand, I found Andy B's style one of doom and gloom. But then I realized that life isn't always the of bed of roses we hope for. I love Rana's style of reading, but at times felt I was steering too far off the mark with her very intuitive reading style. Andy B teaches the bare-bones basics and that is something I need to keep me grounded.
Thanks Village Witch. It seems that most reviews of Andy's book are right - his stark fidelity to the traditional system and no frills, straight-forward approach would give one a good grounding and a solid foundation at least for the German system. I'm so leaning towards getting his book now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownUnderNZer View Post
Caitlin Matthews : Belgium I think or Deutsch. She uses MOON for work although I do not know where I got that or why I think it. Must be that I spotted it on AT as have never interacted with her or opened that box set up until last night. But just to see what was in it really.

Might be thinking of someone else.

"Dondorf" are cards as far as I know and probably a place name or something. Not sure about a country.


DND
Thanks so much DND! So it's the Dutch-Belgian school for Matthews. It seems like all the four books I mentioned follow different systems. It's a good thing I ventured to ask before I bought and plowed through all 4 of them, otherwise I might have ended up as confused as a groundhog on New Year's Eve.

I think I read before that Dondorf is a German guy. When you mentioned his name, that's when I remembered to check if a set I bought locally for a very attractive price is indeed a Dondorf.

Just last year I purchased Katz and Goodwin's Easy Lenormand deck and book set. Had to grab it because while there is a sad lack of Tarot decks even in the main bookstores in my country, a Lenormand is basically a flying pink unicorn here. Anyway, the book is an abridged version of Katz and Goodwin's book Learning Lenormand, which I believe was panned quite a bit. I'm curious about the system that they used but whatever it is, it seems like the main criticism against them was that they veered too far from it that some of the card interpretations they gave were more personal than anything. Subsequently some of their combination examples became puzzling to purists. Can anyone who read his book confirm this?

Anyway, for the longest time, I believed that the Lenormand deck in the set was a French Cartomancy one. But I read somewhere that it really is a Dondorf, so just a while ago I compared its images to the FC and the D and yup, the images in it is identical to both. So I guess the French Cartomancy is a flavor of the Dondorf, or vice versa?
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