Astrological associations

Hi all,

I'm starting to get into the astrological associations with the cards and I'm seeing a lot of "such and such is moon in Taurus" or "Mars in Aries" and I'm wondering if anyone has a good online resource for these associations. I can find the majors okay but have not been able to find a good rundown of the minors. Any help? Thanks!

LilyLavender said:

Hi all,

I'm starting to get into the astrological associations with the cards and I'm seeing a lot of "such and such is moon in Taurus" or "Aries in Mars" and I'm wondering if anyone has a good online resource for these associations. I can find the majors okay but have not been able to find a good rundown of the minors. Any help? Thanks!

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There's some stuff here, but it's by no means the last word. It's based on the Thoth deck.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-thoth/small-cards.html

Barleywine said:

There's some stuff here, but it's by no means the last word. It's based on the Thoth deck.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-thoth/small-cards.html

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That's what I wanted! Thank you. Are the associations different for different schools of tarot? This aspect is new to me.

LilyLavender said:

That's what I wanted! Thank you. Are the associations different for different schools of tarot? This aspect is new to me.

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Those decks that follow the Golden Dawn tradition should be pretty much the same since they work off of the decans (I believe its the Chaldean arrangement rather than the Ptolemaic one, but I could be wrong). Waite didn't put them into his deck or into the Pictorial Key; Crowley did in the Thoth and the accompanying book. Variants have been attempted by some authors over the years, but I think it was mostly for the majors, and none were especially convincing in my opinion. The Marseille decks and reading style don't use them either.

Barleywine said:

Those decks that follow the Golden Dawn tradition should be pretty much the same since they work off of the decans (I believe its the Chaldean arrangement rather than the Ptolemaic one, but I could be wrong). Waite didn't put them into his deck or into the Pictorial Key; Crowley did in the Thoth and the accompanying book. Variants have been attempted by some authors over the years, but I think it was mostly for the majors, and none were especially convincing in my opinion. The Marseille decks and reading style don't use them either.

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Interesting. Now I just have to memorize them, but I think this will give a bit more depth to my interpretations. For the most part, they really make sense but a few had me kind of scratching my head - for example, 8 of swords is Jupiter in Gemini. Doesn't seem right to me, I was expecting Saturn's restrictive influence.

Anyway, thanks again.

LilyLavender said:

For the most part, they really make sense but a few had me kind of scratching my head - for example, 8 of swords is Jupiter in Gemini. Doesn't seem right to me, I was expecting Saturn's restrictive influence.

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My own background is in astrology and I've had the same issues, too... Some cards' astrological associations "fit" with their descriptions, while others simply do not (as a modern astrologer would know of the planet/sign involved). At first, I tried mashing them together, anyway, but it was just too awkward and didn't ring true. So instead, I've learned to keep Tarot and astrology as separate tools in my belt, except for occasional crossovers when they seem to want to get together. "Traditional" astrology may be more likely to work with Tarot, but modern/psychological astrology is sometimes quite different.

LilyLavender said:

Interesting. Now I just have to memorize them, but I think this will give a bit more depth to my interpretations. For the most part, they really make sense but a few had me kind of scratching my head - for example, 8 of swords is Jupiter in Gemini. Doesn't seem right to me, I was expecting Saturn's restrictive influence.

Anyway, thanks again.

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Jupiter is in its detriment in Geminii and is quite uncomfortable there, so it tends to be dysfunctional; Jupiter likes grand, sweeping gestures and doesn't have much patience for the fussy details of Gemini. The idea of "Interference" is perfectly suited to the vision of big-thinking Jupiter being handed a calculator and told to get to work "counting beans." The result is paralysis.

IndigoWaves said:

My own background is in astrology and I've had the same issues, too... Some cards' astrological associations "fit" with their descriptions, while others simply do not (as a modern astrologer would know of the planet/sign involved). At first, I tried mashing them together, anyway, but it was just too awkward and didn't ring true. So instead, I've learned to keep Tarot and astrology as separate tools in my belt, except for occasional crossovers when they seem to want to get together. "Traditional" astrology may be more likely to work with Tarot, but modern/psychological astrology is sometimes quite different.

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I'm newer to astrology than I am to tarot. I'll likely take the same approach, use what I find useful, what seems pertinent to the reading.

Barleywine said:

Jupiter is in its detriment in Geminii and is quite uncomfortable there, so it tends to be dysfunctional; Jupiter likes grand, sweeping gestures and doesn't have much patience for the fussy details of Gemini. The idea of "Interference" is perfectly suited to the vision of big-thinking Jupiter being handed a calculator and told to get to work "counting beans." The result is paralysis.

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Wow, nice explanation! Now it makes sense. Thank you for that.

IndigoWaves said:

My own background is in astrology and I've had the same issues, too... Some cards' astrological associations "fit" with their descriptions, while others simply do not (as a modern astrologer would know of the planet/sign involved). At first, I tried mashing them together, anyway, but it was just too awkward and didn't ring true. So instead, I've learned to keep Tarot and astrology as separate tools in my belt, except for occasional crossovers when they seem to want to get together. "Traditional" astrology may be more likely to work with Tarot, but modern/psychological astrology is sometimes quite different.

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Some are more "forced" than others. The classic debate here is "Why does Cancer go with the Chariot?" (Paul Foster Case reached pretty deep into his metaphysical grab-bag trying to explain that one.) The Minor Arcana associations based on the decans are a little more sensible in most cases (except for having two Mars decans cheek-by-jowl at the beginning of the zodiac). It really isn't "astrology" in any meaningful sense, it's just a kind of zodiacal and planetary "seasoning." I find that it allows for some very colorful and pertinent metaphors.

One last thought on Jupiter in Gemini: it suggests the lower, practical mind trying to carry the higher, philosophical mind on its back. Makes me think of an elephant trying to balance on a unicycle. Although Waite didn't employ the decans, the idea of being "mentally overburdened" goes well with the image in the RWS 8 of Swords: "waste of energy on trivial details" (Eden Gray) pretty much nails the idea. Or so it seems to me . . .

Here is a giant layout I did showing it all in cards. You can ignore the inner circle, it's just my birthchart done up in cards.