What's your problem with the Buddha Tarot!!!?

I have started this thread up for the study group because as much as there are many reasons why the readers of the 'Buddha Tarot' love the deck, there are the odd niggles that I thought should be brought up and hopefully, overcome with time, when discussed.

For me, it starts with the courts. I just find them hard to read because they look so alike. For example, in other decks, they look different and have different personalities, but here the buddha's of the four directions seem pretty alike, not only in looks.

I also find there to be little diversity in a lot of the minors. They do not seem to tell a story chronologically like some scenic-illustrated decks but do not have the simplicity for interpretation that a Marseille deck might have, for example, because there is meaning in the small picture at the bottom.

I can't fault the majors, however.

So, hopefully this will start a discussion and also rectify some of our problems with the deck.

LB

hybrid minors

Hello,
I have Robert Place's Tarot of the Saints as well, and he seems to try to strike a balance between the Marseilles-style minors and the RWS style, with a combination or hybrid appraoch. The scene at the bottom does have meaning, something like Nigel Jackson's tarot, and others; perhaps it's meant to somehow "interact" with the pure element+number style, enhancing both in the process. Just my two cents. I'm brand new to the deck, so I have much to learn. BB, Michael

Speaking of the Courts

The Kings in a conventional deck all have a shadow message and a downside.

How do you have a shadow side of a Buddha?

Yes, you can have deities of wrathful compassion, but that's not negative or a shadow side.

I've never really resolved this in my own mind.

M_M~

All the cards look the same and no matter what question I ask I tend to get the same sort of answer. I'm thinking about putting mine up for trade, actually.

Yeah...

Just ordered this deck and wish I hadn't.

I was reading the author/artist's description about this deck and thought, "by gum, he actually put some real research into it!"

Unfortunately, he didn't, really.

If you're going to make a Buddha Tarot deck, it should be true to Buddhism so that Buddhists might actually be able to use it. Would be a good idea, right?

For example, the correct color attributions should be like so:

Space - Blue
Air - Green
Water - White
Fire - Red
Earth - Yellow

According to 1 guy online who has written a PDF about Tibetan Prayer Flags, supposedly the Nyingma tradition which reverses Air and Water colors, however I am involved with the Nyingma tradition and I've never seen that. Even if that were the case, the artist/author of this deck didn't merely swap these two; he equated Green with Water, Blue with Air and White with Space. So, he royally screwed the color scheme up.

If you're trying to map out the 4 Tarot suit elements, then the colors you would use from the Buddhist tradition are Green for Air/Swords, White for Water/Cups, Red for Fire/Wands and Yellow for Coins/Earth.

No Space suit? Oh well. No blue, then.

The Water suit should be WHITE.

The Air suit should be GREEN.

Green Tara as "water goddess"? No, she is of the Karma family, which is Air. Green like the trees. Everyone who's read even just a little bit about Tara knows that.

This brings me to my next point: these elemental colors correlate to the 5 Buddha families. I have never seen Green Tara associated with Water and I think you will be hard-pressed to find that anywhere, so the idea that the Nyingma tradition ever swapped these colors seems very unlikely, unless the elements of their prayer flags don't match up with the elements of the 5 Buddha Families, which would make no sense.

Let's fixate on the Green Tara card for a moment:
* He's got the color right (green) but the attribution wrong (should be air, not water)
* He's got the symbol of the Double Vajra right, but again that would be Air, not water
* HE SCREWS UP TARA'S POSE. He never has tara's correct finger holding the Utpala flower (should be the ring finger, not the index finger) and he displays Green Tara in full lotus position with eyes on her hands and feet. There is a Blue Tara that looks like this as well. Basically, the artist did not note the details and must be oblivious to their meaning.

The World card is screwed up because he put white as the center background color. That's not how a Buddhist mandala is created. Blue goes in the middle. Space. Having White Tara there is fine since she is the consort of Vairocana, the Space yabyum, but the background should be blue and the blue on the side of the mandala should be white. Since he switched 3 elemental colors around, this mandala is all screwed up.

I don't believe his choice of Trump associations is that great, either. The story doesn't really follow the path of the Fool as much as he would like us to believe.

Place starts out stating he is exploring the connection from a westerners point of view. Tarot is constantly being squished to fit an ever increasing variety of themes cats, dogs, frogs, angels, plants, trees, druids, wicca, templar, voodoo, christianity, sex, drums and rock and roll and Place is quite good at this (from Saints, to Stoker, and Buddha).

From a Buddhist point of view (and I'm not claiming to be an expert, just my opinion) I've always understood Tibetan prayer flags to historically (Nyingma) use green for water white for air. And there are traditional divination methods using rosaries, dice, mirror, meditation and visualisation - numerology would be more in keeping and tarot would seem to me to be a bit alien anyway.

Accepting it as just that - a loose theme and not expecting it to be something it certainly isn't then as a deck I like it, whilst not a hard-hitting deck I find it does read well in a gentle way.

irisa

From a westerner's perspective, it would make no difference if he actually got the color attributions correct...

The 5 Buddha families are very well documented in Tibet. There is no such attribution of green as water that I have ever seen. Karma family = Green = Wind = Green Tara and Amoghasiddhi.

If you know of a credibly Nyingma source, please link it. I have been principally following the Nyingma tradition, but I have also had teachers in the Sakya and Gelug schools.

However, your comment has led me to seek out credible sources with variations... and I have found 2:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Forty-two_peaceful_deities

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/e...level2_basic_theory/buddha_family_traits.html

Neither attributes Green to Water, though. Why does this matter? Well, Green Tara is a HUGE part of Tibetan culture and Buddhism in general. She represents wind and this is a major part of her "personality" because she is like wind (everywhere) and comes "as quickly as the wind" when you call upon her. There is also some association with 'karma' and 'wind' if you think about it just a little bit (motion in space without hindrance).

The following link explains the switch-ups nicely (and also happens to agree with my original statement of that which is most commonly accepted including the logical reasons behind the choices)... And Green nor Green Tara never represent water in any of the variations:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Xl...&resnum=7&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

OH, f it, probably my fault for buying it. I wonder what non-Buddhists actually get out of this deck vs. a deck with all the proper symbolism all synced up? Whatever Buddhist lineage you happen to be in, this isn't going to work for you. It was silly of me to think I could join the two. I have a previously extensive background in Tarot and have since moved on to Buddhism. This is ill-fitting.

I like this deck. I agree it's by no means a complete and fair representative of the Buddhism (specially the Vajrayana, in which Robert Place seems to have focused his studies), and I agree that not all symbols apply perfectly to both tarot and Buddhism. They are different things, from different cultural backgrounds, I doubt anyone could EVER make a deck blending the two without a fault to both things.

I must confess that this deck is what got me interested in learning more about Buddhism in the first place. And while it took me some time to be ready to read with it (the symbolism is a bit unfamiliar in many parts, and I am still learning), I confess I like it's 'voice'. It has a gentle but clear voice, often telling me what appears to be an 'obvious truth' - and yet is one that I am denying. I often feel like I am discussing my ideas with this deck, instead of sitting a passively accepting a message from high sources. It makes me think, instead of patting me on the back.

Not a perfect deck - not at ALL. But a start. Overcoming the initial prejudice can help some people to broaden their horizons a bit.

Now, I am surprised to see people who claim to be a Buddhist having such an arrogant and critical approach when reviewing anything Buddhist-related that they dislike or disagree with. It's surprising that they claim to follow a philosophy and to understand it, while being the first ones to point a finger and judge - exactly what Buddha told people not to do. Tara herself is a symbol of compassion.

It doesn't matter if you know all the colors, mantras and mudras of Tara by heart. If you cannot at least have some Buddhist attitude, all you have is cultural knowledge and nothing else. You are just talking the talk.

Well said Marina