A non-existant deck for discussion purposes only ....

tarotbear

Not sure, but I hope the mods leave this under Decks or Chat since the Peanuts deck is being discussed and this discussion brings up deck creation, copyrights, and intellectual property...without an actual deck existing.

Nothing exceeds like excess.

When my Everyman Tarot deck became a reality it opened up a new realm for me: creating something new to Tarot. At the time I was on Netflix watching the movie and TV versions of 'Sordid Lives' and said 'With this bunch of crazy characters - there has to be a Tarot deck in here somewhere!' I sat down and started listing all the characters - perhaps a Majors-only deck?

In truth - I would not be using stills from the movie or show, so I would not be infringing on the image rights. I intend to hand-draw the characters, make them look somewhat like their celluloid counterparts, and suit them to a Major Arcana card. They would, however, have to bear some resemblance or it would only be an art exercise. This would truely be 'Fan Art.' Should the 'Star' be Tammy Wynette, Brother Boy, or Olivia Newton-John? :D

*** ETA ***
Made the Star Brotherboy; Olivia Newton-John will be Strength, and Tammy Wynette will appear on her own special card!

However - I did not create the characters; they sprang from the fertile mind of Del Shores who wrote the play, screenplay, and television versions, along with a very talented (and screwball) cast of actors. Del Shores created the characters, their names, and the situation/plot. It can be argued that I am going to make my profit based on someone else's work.

So the case becomes - is using his characters to make a Tarot deck infringing on the creative and intellectual property rights of Del Shores? Can I even call it 'The Sordid Lives Tarot - A Fan Deck'? Should I name it after Texas town they live in ... "The Winters,Texas Tarot"? "The Sordid Lives Tribute Tarot"? "Del Shores' Sordid Lives Tarot"?

In the back of my mind I think Del Shores will laugh his butt off if this deck was created; he could also laugh his butt off as his lawyers send me a 'cease & desist' order!

So ~

What part of this is infringement, and what part is creative license? When did or do I cross the line?

{And - if you've never seen 'Sordid Lives' - go find a copy and watch it! :p}

*** ETA ***

I found out Del Shores set the play in Winters, TX - AND THERE REALLY IS SUCH A PLACE!
 

starlightexp

Fan decks can be a hoot to create but as for actually publishing them is whole different ball o'wax. The issues not only stem from the need to get permission from the series creator that is just part of it. With that you can create images based on what you think the characters and locations look like in your mind, just so long as they don't wholly resemble the way the characters look on screen. Those are the result of the production company and a whole slue of other people and are copyright so that would need you to get permission from the company itself. Take for example... um.... Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin. I can ask the author for permission to do a series of art based on the book, but the minute I use any of the TV adaptations as inspiration on how the characters facially look or dress or even the settings then I need to get the makers of the TV series to ok the art. Make sense? Fan decks abound LOST, Dr, Who, Game of Thrones and the numerous Harry Potter decks. They are done out of a love for the series and the characters but so far VERY VERY few ever got the full licensing rights to be printed.


Here is a great site with a full lot of info. Basically the more you change it the more it can be yours.

http://io9.com/5933976/are-fan-fiction-and-fan-art-legal
 

gregory

I do seem to recall that the trustees of the Tolkien estate get VERY excitedly combative if you use the characters he created for ANYTHING....
 

karen0205

You can make whatever you want for your own personal use or to put on your website for entertainment purposes only. As long as you do not profit from the work. Once you make any money from it then you are in copyright infringement territory. The characters are still considered intellectual property, meaning someone thought up those characters and they own them so if you use them to make money, you have to ask for permission first.

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/faqs/copyright-basics/

Here is one page that is specifically about copyright and the RWS deck,
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/faq.htm#enforcement

There is something called Fair Use, this might help:
http://www.copyhype.com/references/

more copyright basics:
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/faqs/copyright-basics/


Here is the full US Copyright laws:
http://www.copyhype.com/references/
 

Debra

I don't believe you can claim exception from copyright on a website just because you're not asking money for people to see what you did.

You can't put someone else's work up without their permission for free download, for example. That's why AT doesn't allow links to those handy-dandy "all cards posted here" sites. Modification for "fair use" is a pretty narrow category (the most straightforward "fair use" is to show something, text or picture, so people can see what I'm talking about in a commentary).

The other thing is, images,names, etc. may be trademarked rather than "copyright."
 

tarotbear

The other thing is - images, names, etc. may be trademarked rather than "copyright."

Ah - Yes! And what is the definition of a Trademark, and how does it differ from a Copyright?

McDonalds is a Trademarked name, I believe. Even if your real name is Susan McDonald - should you wish to start a seafood chain you would not be able to call it 'McDonald's' - and God forbid you have yellow lettering on a red background!

Remember - to even ask permission opens you up to scrutiny because it signals your 'intent' to the copyright owner, who will be sure to have you monitored ....
 

karen0205

A trademark is something that identifies brand, like the Golden Arches for McDonalds, their logo or something identifiable with the company. A copyright is something that protects the intellectual/creative property so McDonalds would copyright their Filet-O-Fish but the McDonalds logo on the package would be their trademark. That way Burger King couldn't start selling a Filet-O-Fish and market it as their own. They would have to come up with their own fish sandwich. That is the Creative Property of McDonalds.
 

starlightexp

While I think having the RWS stuff here is good, that deal behind that is that people question of there STILL is a copyright on that deck where as this is FOR SURE under copyright.
Apply it to your own deck. What if someone took your design, traced over the lines, colored it started selling it? Or if you suddenly found yourself drawn into someone deck of angel cards without your knowledge? How much of YOUR art would have to change for you not to be pissed that someone else was using it?

I guess it all depends how serious you are about this deck. If you want it to be out there for others to use then I'd start in the proper place and see how much the copyright is to use rather then go through all the work and find all you can do is look at it yourself. If the copyright is granted you have greater freedom to pull from the show. But remember making a deck for yourself can also be a great journey.
 

tarotbear

Since SLE brought this up I will add: The last time I checked (which is why I drew my own deck to illustrate my book) the rights to use the RWS images {which I once bought for $250} had gone up to @$1000 and HAD TO BE RENEWED every 2 or 3 years as long as the book was in print. So, if you want to self-publish your own re-colored RWS in Day-glo paints with bling - can you afford $500 a year out of your profit to pay for the rights to publish it? (If you have a company you sold the deck/book to - they automatically get billed for the copyright payment). These are the things to consider when you LEGALLY obtain permission to use copyrighted material...which I guess is why people pirate things - but that doesn't justify the piracy.

You may be able to buy the rights ... but that doesn't last forever and ever and you may have to renew and repay for the privilege.
 

tarotbear

PLEASE WELCOME The QUEEN of Country Music~! MISS TAMMY WYNETTE!

Brotherboy as Tammy Wynette... Just having some fun in Paint!
 

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