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Umbrae's Relationship Spread Study

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Comparison?


Let's compare for the fun of it...

First Draw/1st Person

Hierophant
VIII of Swords
Justice

Foundation card for first draw Card #1/Column 2 = 5 of Cups

Second Draw/1st Person

VII of Cups
III of Cups
VIII of Swords

Foundation of the 2nd draw, Card#1/Column 2 = Emperor

Now...what do you see by comparing the two..?
Top   #11
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Cool Column One


Let’s do this one column at a time using WhiteRaven’s original cards.

VII of Cups
III of Cups
VIII of Swords

Let’s look at the positions. Stick with me on this, cuz we’re going to go a tad ‘outside’.

Lay the cards horizontal like a three-card PPF spread.

Past, often tends to be things we drag around. Emotional baggage. We don’t drag intellectual baggage, it’s emotion. So this is not really how a person feels about the relationship, it’s more like where they were emotionally when they got into the relationship, or what they developed and started dragging around while in the relationship.

Remember – we’re looking at a dynamic here. Is it a new or old relationship?

If the relationship is new, Person 1 may have not necessaritly been disillusioned, but may have been ‘in a hurry to love’ and chose on a whim.

Position two is similar to a here and now present position in that Wants/Needs is a current present thing. Look at the 3 of Cups. What does it tell us? Is it a want or a need or a present circumstance (the third alternative I never discuss). In this case it’s a Want/Need (read across…we’ll cover it when we get there – don’t try to jump ahead)

Position three is like a future. 8 of Swords. They will most likely be going through a tough time, will feel victimized…(self-inflected, and imaginary persecution…why? Well that’s jumping way ahead.

One other note here…whereas the past tends to be about emotional issues – the future tends to be intellectual. We think about the future, we plan. We don’t plan our past, we brood about that. So that’s a partial clue as to self-inflected wounds rather than collateral damage.

NONE of these columns exist individually. They are all interactive with EACH OTHER (with the exceptions of card one in the outside rows).

Wow…a Relationship Spread Study group…how cool is that.

I’ll discuss column two later today or early tomorrow.
Top   #12
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Quote:
whereas the past tends to be about emotional issues – the future tends to be intellectual. We think about the future, we plan. We don’t plan our past, we brood about that
Ah, the simple statement that's so helpful--thanks for turning on a lightbulb!

Seeing the feels/wants/expects column as PPF helps a lot, too.

I'm already learning significant bits. Thanks!
Top   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Let’s do this one column at a time using WhiteRaven’s original cards.

VII of Cups
III of Cups
VIII of Swords

Let’s look at the positions. Stick with me on this, cuz we’re going to go a tad ‘outside’.

Lay the cards horizontal like a three-card PPF spread.

Past, often tends to be things we drag around. Emotional baggage. We don’t drag intellectual baggage, it’s emotion. So this is not really how a person feels about the relationship, it’s more like where they were emotionally when they got into the relationship, or what they developed and started dragging around while in the relationship.

Remember – we’re looking at a dynamic here. Is it a new or old relationship?

If the relationship is new, Person 1 may have not necessaritly been disillusioned, but may have been ‘in a hurry to love’ and chose on a whim
NONE of these columns exist individually. They are all interactive with EACH OTHER (with the exceptions of card one in the outside rows).
This is where I'm confused already...didn't you just read the 1st column individually? ugh...
You're going to see that after a couple of days YOU are going to be the one banging YOUR head against a brick wall with me around...

Note: Off topic...I was going to school for Systems Analyst....there was a guy that was in the class that was the most easy going, patient, understanding guy you could ever want as a tutor...PATIENT...remember that...I had this problem about "Switches"...simplest concept..I see that now...back then...forget it...HE ended up throwing his book in the garbage can and walking out of the lab area cuz I just couldn't get it...

Fair warning????
Top   #14
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Even though the columns are interactive, we have to start somewhere. So yes, we read the first column to get some information. That may be adjusted as we look at the next cards (almost certainly will be).

You have the advantage of knowing the people involved, which greatly changes you accepting or rejecting a statement we make about them. Which also blocks how you see the spread.

And you already did a second draw on the first column because you decided the first column was too hard? (Or didn't match your knowledge of the person?)

All that adds a lot of complications to a *simple* study (ha!)
Top   #15
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Cool


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRaven
It was a rebound relationship for both. Person 1
<snip>
This is where I'm confused already...didn't you just read the 1st column individually? ugh...
I don’t want to know about the reality of either person yet. It’s too specific (can you edit that stuff out?).

Right now I want to look at the components and how they interact with each other, how they balance and sway.

And yes I did read the column all by itself (but not completely…stick with me on this…be patient with me…it will all make sense.

And if you are going to throw anything…throw your TV ROFLMAO.

Ya just have to 'get' how this sorta-kinda PPF spread looks. When we start lining things up it will be just fine...
Top   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagemaker
Even though the columns are interactive, we have to start somewhere. So yes, we read the first column to get some information. That may be adjusted as we look at the next cards (almost certainly will be).

You have the advantage of knowing the people involved, which greatly changes you accepting or rejecting a statement we make about them. Which also blocks how you see the spread.

And you already did a second draw on the first column because you decided the first column was too hard? (Or didn't match your knowledge of the person?)

All that adds a lot of complications to a *simple* study (ha!)
I did another spread for no particular reason...just did..
I posted the second one...no idea why either..I'm just guessing probably because of all the Majors in the 2nd column caught my eye...

I'm in this study because I had quite a hard time with this spread last week and Umbrae was nice enough to offer help. I may frustrate people with my questions but I'm only trying to learn...I really want to learn how to use this spread the way it was intended to be used...correctly and thoroughly.

Umbrae...I've edited the stuff you wanted out of the thread. I thought you were asking me personally if it was a new or old or what kind of relationship so I thought I'd fill in the blanks.

As for knowing the couple and background..as Umbrae has stated, it's not going to be looked at right now so I have to erase that from my mind and concentrate on the spread...maybe I shouldn't have asked a question but this spread I pulled was ummm on Sunday night. I just grabbed it for the study.
Top   #17
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Starting over...


Just because this post has landed itself a tad far from my first post I will repost the spread....

WhiteRaven can hear sighs of relief from some far off corner of the forum...

Ok...this is to try and learn Umbrae's Relationship Spread.
I've pulled some cards for the purpose of learning this.
I've asked the moderators where would be the best place to post this and they directed me in the Study Group/General section of the Forum.


First Column - Person 1

VII of Cups
III of Cups
VIII of Swords


Second Column

Emperor
World
Justice
II of Pents


Third column - Person 2

Magician
V of Pentacles
II of Swords

I think we start with Person 1...right?

So if I were to read this column then it would be from top to bottom.

So what I see here is Person 1 is disillusional about the said relationship and they are not seeing the reality of it. They aren't getting what they expect from it and are in denial. The III of Cups says that what she needs at this point is friendship and the VIII of Swords basically is saying that she's becoming or is in a depression. This resulting from the disillusions and not seeing the reality of the said relationship...

Am I getting this?
Top   #18
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Cool


Reprise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Let’s do this one column at a time using WhiteRaven’s original cards.

VII of Cups
III of Cups
VIII of Swords

Let’s look at the positions. Stick with me on this, cuz we’re going to go a tad ‘outside’.

Lay the cards horizontal like a three-card PPF spread.

Past, often tends to be things we drag around. Emotional baggage. We don’t drag intellectual baggage, it’s emotion. So this is not really how a person feels about the relationship, it’s more like where they were emotionally when they got into the relationship, or what they developed and started dragging around while in the relationship.

Remember – we’re looking at a dynamic here. Is it a new or old relationship?

If the relationship is new, Person 1 may have not necessarily been disillusioned, but may have been ‘in a hurry to love’ and chose on a whim.

Position two is similar to a here and now present position in that Wants/Needs is a current present thing. Look at the 3 of Cups. What does it tell us? Is it a want or a need or a present circumstance (the third alternative I never discuss). In this case it’s a Want/Need (read across…we’ll cover it when we get there – don’t try to jump ahead)

Position three is like a future. 8 of Swords. They will most likely be going through a tough time, will feel victimized…(self-inflected, and imaginary persecution…why? Well that’s jumping way ahead.

One other note here…whereas the past tends to be about emotional issues – the future tends to be intellectual. We think about the future, we plan. We don’t plan our past, we brood about that. So that’s a partial clue as to self-inflected wounds rather than collateral damage.

NONE of these columns exist individually. They are all interactive with EACH OTHER (with the exceptions of card one in the outside rows).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRaven
Third column - Person 2

Magician
V of Pentacles
II of Swords
I’ll try to stick close to accepted LWB meanings for learning purposes. However it’s impossible for me to not color accepted meanings with my own take on cards (which I will try to explain). And I have to state this because here we have The Magician, in the Feels/Brings or Brought to the Relationship space.

Boy oh boy…

Ususally The Magician is seen as a card of control. He brought control to the Relationship? He Feels control? Let’s dig deeper. Here, hold the flashlight while I explore.

The Magician is something Person 2 is dragging around. Why? Usually it’s because somewhere just before, they felt stepped on, used abused and tossed out. They got hurt. And they were ‘innocent’. “If he/whe/it only understood me! I tried and they got walked over me and broke my heart! And I’ll never ever ever let that happen again. I’m in control now…” The problem is that The Magician stands alone.

The 5 of Pentacles in the Needs/Wants/Now area. Okay…so the LWB talks about poverty but we are discussing feelings. Thinking of Fives as Givurah, this card, in this space, is about self induced punishment. It’s a dark card here – unresolved issues of the past would be strongly indicated IMHO.

Now let’s start putting this together.

Look at Person 1 & 2’s root cards. 1 was indecision, with a necessity to choose and a feeling that one had to do so quickly (perhaps a fear element). “Did I choose correctly?” is their yoke.

Person 2 emotionally distant, controlling or self willed attitudes were a perfect match – they balanced.

They balance on The Emperor. Now The Emperor one half of an entity. The Emperor needs the Empress. The Emperor is tired of being a warrior; he cannot be a warrior and rule. He is about disciplining his baser desires.

The Emperor ‘binds’ the two well. He is also about metaphorically ‘slowing down’. Good for both Persons 1 & 2.

You know how most of us read from left to right? We number from left to right? Change that.

Here. When reading across – read from the Strong Card. Outside row only.

We always read towards the center. The Center Row is the relationship. It exists as its own entity and yet as a result of the persons involved. So we look for the strongest Person card.

Row One was The Magicin in Column Three.

Row two is the Dark Card. The 5 of Pentacles. Does Person 2 need to punish themselves? They sure feel they do. But it’s a want. A guilt. It’s paired with The Magician.

Person One is the 3 of Cups. Cool card. Well Person 1 knows she wants to know she chose right…. Between you and I that’s a need. She’s gotta be able to dance. We have a harvest festival, a Martyr, and The World.

Here, the Tarot tells us we have a balance. So let’s let it sit for a bit and we’ll come back to it. It won’t go anywere, it’ll wait.

Here I where it gets fun. And I have to color these cards a bit.

We have the penitent as Person 1. It’s like Person 2 was contagious. The emotion crosses over. 8 lies on Hod, and swords are intellect. This is a card of thinking gone awry – thinking that has gone out of balance. Here is delusion – but because of the timeline (Future/Expected Outcome) this card serves as a warning.

The 2 of Swords. I love this card. It’s so deep. There is a sense of mastery to this card, as a balance for the 8 of Swords it’s wonderful and scary. There is a satisfaction from Person 2 that they were indeed contagious, not from a maliciousness on their part but from a misunderstanding of the true potential of love.

They balance off the balance of Justice – they both believe and feel they got what they deserved.

A lot of majors here – this is a strong strong layout.

But will it work? Will it be a good relationship?

It sure can be. If both parties understand their past, it can serve as a good foundation. Person 2 is the key.

Look at those last three cards – if Person 2 uses their mastery with the swords to help rescue Person 1 – If Person 2 realized what they have done/are doing to Person 2…and they can’t be told…they wear a blind fold (hey – it covers their ears…).

Outcome…the Juggler…the 2 of Pentacles. It’s a difficult balance – not without possibilities – but not without serious work. A good ship with a good crew can weather sever storms if they work together to reef the sails.
Top   #19
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Cool


You may also choose to read the center row down at this time, always keeping the dynamics of the outter rows. I like/Don't like this center row. It has momentum...it moves...Three majors...and then a 2. Its not that it feels wrong, it feels clumsy…awkward…teetery.
Top   #20




 


 


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