Umbrae's Relationship Spread Study

zorya

fm, i do read from inside out and outside in and in all directions.

it might help to think of how real relationships work.

forget the cards for a minute, and take any two people with a relationship... some feelings come from past experiences, some feelings come from hopes; and doesn't person a's feelings sometimes effect person b's and visa versa? doesn't person b's expected outcome impact on person a's expected outcome and on person a's feelings and needs?

what happens when person a's needs is in balance with person b's? doesn't that effect both of their expected out comes or feelings? doesn't that impact the relationship? what about when their needs are very different from each other?

a relationship is what exists between two people. so it is a third thing in of itself. but it is still part of each of and both of the individuals. of course the relationship impacts each of them and each of them impact the relationship.
 

WhiteRaven

I pulled some cards at random...

Person 1

Five of Rods
Five of Pents
Ten of Swords

Relationship

Two of Cups
Eight of Rods
Three of Swords
The Sun


Person 2

Six of Swords
Four of Cups
6 of Cups

Using some of the outlines that I got from the other two threads:

Look at the over-all spread. Anything JUMP out at you? That’s where you start.

Person 1 - 10 of Swords
Relationship - Two of Cups and the Sun
Person 3 - The contradiction of the three cards in general

Neither person has majors
Relationship ends with a positive card that IS the only Major in the spread.

All elements are present equaling a balance of some sort.

Person one bringing into the relationship a lot of stuggles and baggage (Five of Rods)

Person 2 - I don't understand

Foundation is most clearly the love that they hold for each other

Person One feels lonely, abandoned (Five of Pents)
Person two is ignoring something or doesn't want to see.

Person One's expectations are not positive at all so I don't know how this is tied to the Sun.

Person 2's expectations could tie into some past memories that are good and concrete which could tie into the Sun if person 2 pulls from that.(memories)

I don't see the flow for Person 2

I see somewhat of a flow with Person 1

Relationship started out with true love and quickly went to heartache but seems to have a good outlook in the end with the Sun...which is emphasized and is the card that stands out the most because it's the only Major in the spread and connects comfortably with the foundation of the relationship (Two of Cups)

am I getting this yet? I know that there are some blanks yet to fill but from what I have said...am I getting ANYWHERE yet?

:confused:

Edited to add:

As I was re-reading my post a thought came to my mind. Over all it could be saying that the heartache had to occur to clear the baggage and obstacles and by doing that the results will be positive in the end. I feel that Person 2 is going to come back to some sort of realization through bringing up the good and solid memories of the relationship and carry that into a solid, positive outcome. The thing Person 2 is not seeing is those memories right now...just something that popped into my mind.


Edited again to add: I just read a thread on The Sun for RWS. My version is the 1909 one btw...

Referring to the "Wall" that is mentioned in the other thread. In this case it could mean that all the problems, obstacles etc..will be left behind and a surge to a new start for the couple as a whole?

I'm pulling threads now and trying to mesh things...so
that would make sense if the 6 of Cups are bad memories of heatache for both Person 1 and Person 2 that are left behind the "wall" on the Sun card and happiness in the forefront for the two of them as a loving couple (two of Cups and The Sun) but I still say the heart break had to occur to clear all the crap that was originally carried into the relationship by Person 1. I still can't see the Six of Swords for person 2 fit anywhere yet...

The Four of Cups could be Person 2 ignoring what Person 1 is feeling right now because of some personal soul searching?

I keep tryin'!!!


Edit AGAIN to add link to the Sun thread:

The RWS "Sun"

My version also has the "love" under the signature. :)
 

WhiteRaven

6 of Swords

Person 1's 6 of Swords could mean that they came into the relationship in hope of smoother times for themselves...and/or is looking away and ignoring the baggage of Person 1 and just focusing on the "love" that brought them together (2 of Cups)?

I'm still working on this...
 

WhiteRaven

Firemaiden,

I don't think I need to get anymore confused then I already am but the touch of humor was a nice suggestion....I'm quite frustrated at this point so it brought kind of a breath of fresh air ....for an instant...but then it was back to my frustrations again.
 

Umbrae

Another example

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34158

In this spread – there are two things that ‘jump out’ at me.

Person one has two swords; person two has two 6’s. This is more significant than the ranks.

There is a lot of ‘thought process’ going on with person 1, a need to be accepted – both beginning a new cycle in life offset with a concern about what others think of them. There is a need for self-discipline, to stay focused on the ‘new cycle’ lest they lose focus.

Person 2 strikes me as a ‘wounded healer’…

This is ‘confirmed’ by the 9 of wands – they both carry scars.

The Emperor intercedes – sooths the hurts of person 2, and acknowledges person 1. A good strong healthy beginning. A good foundation to build on…

Temperance – Sun – Ace of Swords; it’s a strong indication for the good of Person 2. It tells me that person 2 may begin to ‘heal’ person 1’s need for support.

The Moon here – is a reflection of the Sun. By itself it could imply dark meanings – but here it tells us that it illuminates by reflecting the Sun.

Person 1 needs to allow person 2 to “be”. They need to stick with the relationship even when it’s rocky (they have to practice temperance).

This is a difficult relationship that needs to be nurtured – it is in the best interest of both parties.
 

WhiteRaven

This is ‘confirmed’ by the 9 of wands – they both carry scars.

So the foundation was not strong then if they carried "baggage or scars"

The Emperor intercedes – sooths the hurts of person 2, and acknowledges person 1. A good strong healthy beginning. A good foundation to build on…

This is what the relationship needs to succeed. To find a "new" foundation to start rebuilding upon. Right? It's not something that is established as of yet...right?

Temperance – Sun – Ace of Swords; it’s a strong indication for the good of Person 2. It tells me that person 2 may begin to ‘heal’ person 1’s need for support.

???? not sure of the mesh in this.

The Moon here – is a reflection of the Sun. By itself it could imply dark meanings – but here it tells us that it illuminates by reflecting the Sun.

My Gawd! The girl actually sees this!!! roflol! :laugh: ;)

Person 1 needs to allow person 2 to “be”. They need to stick with the relationship even when it’s rocky (they have to practice temperance).

I see the "temperance"=patience, I don't see where you are getting "person 2 to "be" " Where are you referencing this from?
 

Umbrae

Another Example

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=403039#post403039

Let’s begin by looking at Person 1. Pentacles pentacles swords. And a three of swords at that. Hmmm did these folks meet at work?

Look at the Page of P’s…almost like the beginning of a work/material cycle. The Ace is a definite ‘beginning’. These two cards make sense…followed by the 3 of Swords…Hmmm we’ll come back to that.

Person 2. Jesus H. Christ-on-a-crutch slap bam punch ug biff baff. Let’s just slap this person around some more they need more bruises (lol). They needed to be supported – they feel pretty battered. They end with the Emperor? We’ll get back to that.

Both parties needed... Two was missing something in their lives, and One was beginning a new cycle (material plane), and however the relationship suffered because both were ‘looking’ at different things and not acting and working in unity. This lead to the misunderstandings illustrated in the next row of cards…

Ace of P – 7 of P – 7 of Wands

By the time that the relationship ‘came around’ into positive ground, where things come to fruition (7 of Pentacles) – person 2 was feeling a tad out of sorts, not truly in touch. They thought they were alone – but they were supported (by person 1) – but person 2 didn’t realize it.

I like the resolution of the Emperor on Person 2’s column. It ‘flows’ nice and ends on a strong positive note.

3 of Swords – 5 of Swords – The Emperor

Get this…the 3 always carries negative connotations. Hurt heartache blah blah blah glib language insertion blah blah blah. What authors never discuss is that it’s always self-inflected. There may be a very good scapegoat to blame, but ultimately the person the 3 of Swords is talking about always put themselves into a bad position.

The same is true here. Person one may very well be put off by the person 2 not yet being in the stage of the Emperor – they may not want to wait – they need the relationship to be stable now (not the 5 of Swords action that IS happening…little things, hurtful things, things said behind backs…), but the fire of wands and the earthiness of pentacles are not meshing here.

We see trouble here. Both need to look to the needs of the other.

The Fool is the card that tells us that in this case – both parties need to find parity. Physically and spiritually. Preferably together.

This is a reading where there is not ‘strong side’. The Emperor is the strongest of the cards, and does kind of balance the 3 of Swords – there’s a danger there, I’m not minimizing it – but it can soften it a bit. There is also a plethora of 7’s here…this relationship at this time should be played out – even if it fails – both parties have much to learn from it. There is a lot of growth going on.
 

tartanmon

Umbrae, you are uncannily correct in many of your interpretations. Yes I met him at work and still work with him. Your description of "him" is dead on, all three of them. But, how would you explain the page of pents, and ace of pents flowing into the 3 of swords? He expects me to hurt him?

Person 2 is me, and yes I've been battered around, totally right. All of that is totally correct, all the way down to the Emperor.

Sorry I don't know how to use the Quote feature so here goes:

Quote:

Ace of P – 7 of P – 7 of Wands

By the time that the relationship ‘came around’ into positive ground, where things come to fruition (7 of Pentacles) – person 2 was feeling a tad out of sorts, not truly in touch. They thought they were alone – but they were supported (by person 1) – but person 2 didn’t realize it."

This is very confusing to me -- and doesn't make sense at all - but why would it I guess if I didn't "realize it". I don't think he supported me.

Quote: We see trouble here. Both need to look to the needs of the other.

The Fool is the card that tells us that in this case – both parties need to find parity. Physically and spiritually. Preferably together.

I do not believe he wants to look at my needs or work on the relationship -- he's a gemini man with four major planets in Taurus in his first house -- stubborn as a mule and selfish? Perhaps the Taurus thing is why it bothers him so that I am not stable and need to be emotionally supported. And i know this sounds stupid, but what exactly does physical and spiritual parity mean?

I have just, on 10/29, entered a 1/10 personal year. Boy, the 9 year was sure fun. He entered a 3 in May.

Quote: This is a reading where there is not ‘strong side’. The Emperor is the strongest of the cards, and does kind of balance the 3 of Swords – there’s a danger there, I’m not minimizing it – but it can soften it a bit. There is also a plethora of 7’s here…this relationship at this time should be played out – even if it fails – both parties have much to learn from it. There is a lot of growth going on.

What do you mean by "not strong side"? Is there supposed to be? Does that mean it can't be a strong relationship? How can I "play the relationship out" on my own? I can't seem to get past his wall of stubbornness or hurt or whatever he wants to call it.

Amazingly accurate except for my own confusion.
 

WhiteRaven

Here's me tearing this apart to make sure I "get this"...

Let’s begin by looking at Person 1. Pentacles pentacles swords. And a three of swords at that. Hmmm did these folks meet at work?

Pents = Money = Work related.....
Very good observation btw...

Person 2. Jesus H. Christ-on-a-crutch slap bam punch ug biff baff. Let’s just slap this person around some more they need more bruises (lol). They needed to be supported – they feel pretty battered. They end with the Emperor? We’ll get back to that.

See..this doesn't "fit" in the "defined" positions...this is where you usually lose me because I'm going by the "defined" positions...I know you were "right on" because of the readers post on top of this one...but this is a great example as to HOW I get lost in some ways.

Both parties needed... Two was missing something in their lives, and One was beginning a new cycle (material plane), and however the relationship suffered because both were ‘looking’ at different things and not acting and working in unity. This lead to the misunderstandings illustrated in the next row of cards…

I don't see where you got this from...I see that Person 2 "needs" the security because of her past. But I don't see where Person 1 needs anything at this point other than what he perceives as a possible heartache and a solution to that...but that's not what you're talking about here because you're still way up on top. sigh...

Ace of P – 7 of P – 7 of Wands

By the time that the relationship ‘came around’ into positive ground, where things come to fruition (7 of Pentacles) – person 2 was feeling a tad out of sorts, not truly in touch. They thought they were alone – but they were supported (by person 1) – but person 2 didn’t realize it.

I don't see the Ace as "support"...I see it as Person 1 thinking everything is just fine in the relationship and ignoring what Person 2 is feeling. Ace of Swords can also be looked upon as either success or failure. So I'm going to retract that last statement I made here....I think that Person 1 is seeing that the relationship is failing and thinking he's the victim, that brings the flow into the 3 of Swords...his fear and/or his feeling of being hurt. At this point I'm totally ignoring the "defined" positions though.

[snip]

3 of Swords – 5 of Swords – The Emperor

[snip]

Person one may very well be put off by the person 2 not yet being in the stage of the Emperor – they may not want to wait – they need the relationship to be stable now (not the 5 of Swords action that IS happening…little things, hurtful things, things said behind backs…), but the fire of wands and the earthiness of pentacles are not meshing here.

I see the "mesh" with the Pents and Wands....wooo hooo! ;)


[snip]

This is a reading where there is not ‘strong side’. The Emperor is the strongest of the cards, and does kind of balance the 3 of Swords – there’s a danger there, I’m not minimizing it – but it can soften it a bit. There is also a plethora of 7’s here…this relationship at this time should be played out – even if it fails – both parties have much to learn from it. There is a lot of growth going on.

I see the strength leaning more on Person 1 because of the Ace and the fact that Pents also indicate a sense of being "grounded". The "fire" in Person 2 does not mesh with the "earth" of Person 1. The 3 sevens is a message of completion...and the Fool gives me the impression of a "new" beginning...fresh start either in the relationship or for the individuals themselves outside the relationship that is being discussed. I do see this as a lesson for Person 2 but not for Person 1 because I have a sense that this person feels like he's not doing anything wrong and he feels that he is the "victim" at this point or is becoming the victim...

That's my take on it anyway....


[SIZE=-2]I think the teacher is getting fed up with the student... :( [/SIZE]