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Umbrae's Relationship Spread Study

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White Raven:

Your Quote:
I don't see the Ace as "support"...I see it as Person 1 thinking everything is just fine in the relationship and ignoring what Person 2 is feeling. Ace of Swords can also be looked upon as either success or failure. So I'm going to retract that last statement I made here....I think that Person 1 is seeing that the relationship is failing and thinking he's the victim, that brings the flow into the 3 of Swords...his fear and/or his feeling of being hurt.

I think this is true, I definitely think he's ignoring how I feel, I think he's ignoring how he feels as well. I do believe he thinks he's becoming the victim and I definitely know he's afraid to be hurt.

Your Quote:
I see the strength leaning more on Person 1 because of the Ace and the fact that Pents also indicate a sense of being "grounded". The "fire" in Person 2 does not mesh with the "earth" of Person 1. The 3 sevens is a message of completion...and the Fool gives me the impression of a "new" beginning...fresh start either in the relationship or for the individuals themselves outside the relationship that is being discussed. I do see this as a lesson for Person 2 but not for Person 1 because I have a sense that this person feels like he's not doing anything wrong and he feels that he is the "victim" at this point or is becoming the victim...

Person 1 is definitely a stable person, Person 2 is in the middle of a divorce and just sold her home -- lots of transitions. But the 3 sevens are a message of completion of what? What is Person 2's lesson? I would agree that Person 1 feels he hasn't done anything wrong, even tho he has.

The Fool definitely confuses me as an outcome - especially a new beginning outside of the relationship.

When I've done readings regarding Person 1 before, on many occasions I've pulled the 4 of cups. He doesn't see Person 2 that's right in front of his face offering great things.
Top   #51
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Quote:

Your Quote:
I see the strength leaning more on Person 1 because of the Ace and the fact that Pents also indicate a sense of being "grounded". The "fire" in Person 2 does not mesh with the "earth" of Person 1. The 3 sevens is a message of completion...and the Fool gives me the impression of a "new" beginning...fresh start either in the relationship or for the individuals themselves outside the relationship that is being discussed. I do see this as a lesson for Person 2 but not for Person 1 because I have a sense that this person feels like he's not doing anything wrong and he feels that he is the "victim" at this point or is becoming the victim...
Quote:
tartanmon Quote:

Person 1 is definitely a stable person, Person 2 is in the middle of a divorce and just sold her home -- lots of transitions. But the 3 sevens are a message of completion of what?
Completion of a cycle. Whether it be a cycle of what "is" now and the views that Person 1 has or a completion of the relationship in question. The relationship is not "balanced" here. It's not going well. This is quite clear with the cards that have been pulled. I may sound crude right now and rather tactless but this spread to me right now is a study tool. It was referred to for that purpose. I'm sorry if I'm being too direct but I have to understand this spread and what I see and feel is a big part of it.

In regards to the "7's" , there is another thread, that amazingly enough, I happen to agree with the concept...take a look and you'll see what I mean.

Discussion on 7's

Quote:
What is Person 2's lesson?
It's showing you what you search for. It's showing you that you need emotional security in a very big way because of your past. I believe that the Tarot is also telling you that you need to work on healing some of those scars that you carry around with you. I see the tarot giving you the advice to slow down...and do some inner work before looking for another relationship. I see that the tarot's advice is a very good one too. Don't ask me where I see this...it's a feeling I get as I look at the cards. We have to listen to our "inner voice" as well as the cards when reading.
I suppose the lesson that is being brought forth is that we can not "expect" to find someone that will take away all our insecurities for us. Often they don't have anything to do with it and we are throwing our insecurities in their laps and saying "fix this, I can't"...but in reality...you and everyone else in the same situation, is the only person that can "fix" your own insecurities. If you take the time to heal those scars where the insecurities root from, you will walk into a relationship with no scars or baggage and stand on a much solider ground/foundation. I don't know if you are following me here...I hope so though. You can't "expect" anything from anyone or any relationship. Placing expectations on things always lends to shadowing....


Quote:
The Fool definitely confuses me as an outcome - especially a new beginning outside of the relationship.
Well, a new beginning within the relationship will absolutely have to involve BOTH people...which at this point I don't see happening unless there is some drastic change with Person 1. Person 2 also has to accept "some" responsibility in this because of Person 2's past history and insecurities that go along with that history. There is a lot of work to be done to make this relationship work and I don't see where the two-way effort is going to come from. This is why I say that within the relationship there has to be a new ground formed and a solid one for it to work. That or the Fool IS saying that the "new beginning" will happen outside the relationship...seperately/individually on different paths...starting with Person 2 doing some major healing work. At this point, I don't even know what Person 1's "new" start would have to entail on a seperate path of his own.

Hope this helps clarify some of what "I" see. Remember, I'm the student in this thread.
Top   #52
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Cool


I’ve figured I’d back off and let you guys work on this…no teacher is not tired or frustrated.

However I cannot teach you how I read. Or how I process information.

I can tell you that if you lay out the same three cards for two different spreads the same three cards will never read the same.

I do want to remind you, as I stated way back when, when I first posted this spread…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
…It is not a, “A=1, B=2, C=3” type spread… Remember as we learn to read, books stress the card meanings…this means this and that means that. Spreads tend to have lovely ‘this means this and that means’ that places for the cards to go… Time should be spent learning the three card spread, in order to learn ‘how cards relate to each other’… You cannot learn this in a book folks, you have to read…a lot… So have some faith in yourself, and learn by doing…
I now have too many spreads to follow in this one thread, and cannot address each point or question individually. What I can say is…

“Defined positions”…don’t exist. They are guidelines, suggestions…

See the key to this is not to impose positions, or impose meanings. Such is an act of ego – intellectual elitism. Use the postions as ideas, concepts. Let the cards tell you what they mean rather than the other way around.
Top   #53
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Thanks to both of you for your interpretations. Yes, White Raven, you really cut to the bone, but I obviously needed to hear it on some level. I didn't realize this reading was going to be part of a study group.

I guess I just wanted some clarification from you Umbrae on some of the things you meant when you interpreted. But I understand and thanks for your time.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see where The Fool takes me.

Tartanmon
Top   #54
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Hi there, I´ve finally gotten the time to go over the thread and picked up a lot of good things
I took me a while to understand the balance thing on WhiteRaven´s reading but finally I did. See everyone gets confused, and if anything this thread shows that a spread like this is deep enough and we´re almost bound to get lost somewhere.
So I want to tear apart my reading: I do know that they both carry scars as you said, makes perfect sense the nine of swords. But this wounded healer...I´m having a really tough time figuring out where he´s coming from. And how does person 1 affect person 2? You only talked about person 2's actions (healing) over person 1.
Also, why do they need to stick with the relationship, why is it in their interest? I´m confused about both´s motives or feelings about each other and the realtionship...
Top   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feticeira
Hi there, I´ve finally gotten the time to go over the thread and picked up a lot of good things
I took me a while to understand the balance thing on WhiteRaven´s reading but finally I did. See everyone gets confused, and if anything this thread shows that a spread like this is deep enough and we´re almost bound to get lost somewhere.
So I want to tear apart my reading: I do know that they both carry scars as you said, makes perfect sense the nine of swords. But this wounded healer...I´m having a really tough time figuring out where he´s coming from. And how does person 1 affect person 2? You only talked about person 2's actions (healing) over person 1.
Also, why do they need to stick with the relationship, why is it in their interest? I´m confused about both´s motives or feelings about each other and the realtionship...
I'm going to leave this one to the Teacher cuz I didn't "tear" yours apart and it's his post you are referring to.
Top   #56
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Cool Feedback on Feedback for feticeira’s layout


Quote:
Originally Posted by feticeira
slightly edited by Umbrae So I want to tear apart my reading: I do know that they both carry scars as you said, makes perfect sense the nine of swords.
Nine of Wands actually…
Quote:
But this wounded healer...I´m having a really tough time figuring out where he´s coming from.

And how does person 1 affect person 2? You only talked about person 2's actions (healing) over person 1.

Also, why do they need to stick with the relationship, why is it in their interest? I´m confused about both´s motives or feelings about each other and the relationship...
handy link to spread

Wounded Healer. Remember – this is me, and this makes no logical sense. I’ll never read the same reading/spread the same twice. The first thing that jumps at me were two six’s in Person 2’s column.

6 hit me at the time as relating to Tephareth. So that equates with the role of someone who’s been there, who is helping the other (wounded healer)… A wounded healer could be seen from two ends of a spectrum. Some may want to read in an Alcoholics Anonymous type person or addict – others will see it as someone who’s simply been hurt and recovered and is helping another get over their pain. Person 2 could be somewhere in between. But that’s what hit me as I looked at the cards.

Person 1 has two swords. They (the columns) offset each other. If there were one 6 or 1 sword on either side, it would balance (or not balance) different. One may want to lay more ‘weight’ to the swords. But 2 Six’s…there’s a strength there that cannot be ignored (especially looking at odds).

There is also a harmony in and of the sixes – and the double sixes ‘make’ it even more harmonious. There’s a nurturing aspect at work here, along with an aspect of responsibility and duty.

How does person 1 affect person 2?

At this time, (look at The Emperor between the 6’s and the Swords) it appears that Person 1 – just being Person 1 is providing Person 2 with the outlet that they need – looks symbiotic to me. Like Person 2 helps lead Person 1 into the realm of Temperance…

Why should they stick together? I dunno. I don’t get a bad hit off the Sun-Moon. Now with the time coming up, Temperance-Sun-Ace of Swords will be a very difficult time for them. Stuff’s about to be revealed on both sides…

And they will have a decision to make…

They can either choose to take the dark of the moon or the illumination of the moon, which is a reflection of the Sun. If they choose to stick together…it’ll be a strong bond. If they split…they’ll replay the same play over again with someone else until they get it right.

Now…let’s go back to the Swords on Person 1. The Queen tells us they may be overplaying their own self-importance. Compound following a Page, I just am unable to see them being able to see the whole big picture.

I don’t see the 6 of Cups as ‘looking backwards’ (memories) or a bad card. You have to look backwards to diagnose, to treat (RWS note – perhaps the boy is telling the girl about herbs and their uses…nobody ever thinks about that…which is more in line with a 6 meaning and an earthy pentacles meaning). It’s a very healing card.

Motives? Perhaps it’s about learning about getting over hurt, and not hurting each other, and not asking each other to be more than they are, but helping each other be more than they are.

Managing (Temperance again) how they emotionalize…?
Top   #57
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I just thought I would let the Teacher know that his efforts are not for nothing.

I had my first REAL paying client this week and I used Umbrae's spread..(brave aren't I.. )

Anyways...it was a complete success! "Spot on" and it went quite indepth. This is going to help me in a very big way and I have to thank this study group and the time and effort that you, Umbrae, have given, especially to me.

Thank you Umbrae!!!!

This does NOT mean I'm finished with you yet..ahem...I still have a few things to learn and more frustrations in the future....as WhiteRaven eyes her VCR closely.....
Top   #58
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hey! thanks to this thread i discovered this spread, and was really looking forward to trying it. i did it tonight for someone through an internet chat, and i could do the cards individually and it made a lot of sense but i had a lot of trouble connecting them to each other, the way umbrae makes look so easy

so i'd love to hear your thoughts!!

1 7 4
2 8 5
3 9 6
10


column A is her, column B is him.

(r is reversed)

Her
1- moon - r
2- knight wands - r
3- empress - r

Him
4- 7 swords
5- justice
6- queen pents - r

R'ship
7- five pents - r
8- wheel of fortune
9- 4 swords
10- queen wands - r

i don't want to get into too much detail - we had a long conversation in chat about this. they were together in the past, and she broke it off, but would like to get back with him. in between, she went back to her ex, for various reasons. so, he may feel like she left FOR the ex, even though that's not the case, and he's hesitant to get involved again because he doesn't want to be hurt. (this is from our talk and my reading of the cards) she wants to know whether there is any chance for them again. i feel like there can be a second chance, but she has to prove that she can provide a safe stable relationship for him.

look forward to your input, thanks ;o)
Top   #59




 


 


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