Sun sign and Ascendant

This is something that has interested me for a long time. When you have the same sun sign and ascendant does this mean you feel that sign to a deeper level, or it is just strongly prevelant in your personality? I am slowly trying to learn all of this so if I hope that this made some sense. Thanks

Cheers,

Danielle*****

Well it would definitely be more noticeable to others and more prevalent in your personality. And you would most likely look much more like that sign.

And . . . ?

And what might that sign look like? Stature, face shape, hair color, etc. Dave

Lilly and other traditional Astrologers did attibute physical characteristics to signs. For example he says that the shape and description of Taurus is:

'short but of of a full strong and well set stature, a broad forehead, great eyes, big face, large, strong shoulders, great mouth, and thick lips, gross hands, black rugged hair'

Now reading Lilly's work on Natal Astrology it is clear that he did not just take the basic sign physical descriptions in his nativities, he adjusted for a variety of planetary conditions. He takes (in order):

1. Planets in the Ascendant
2. Ascendant sign, (and intercepted sign if any)
3. Ascendant ruler
4. Planet or planets aspecting the Ascendant ruler (in partile degree)
5. Fixed stars rising with the Ascendant
6. Temperament

On this basis the Sun would have a role in the process, if it were in the Ascendant, otherwise it would not have any role to play except to the extent it contributes to Temperament.

Moreover, he recognised that whilst it might work well for natives from England, it didn't work anywhere near as well if you were dealing with a native of Southern Spain or someone from North Africa. In his day, I guess the number of 'non-standard' types an Astrologer met, was miniscule - these days we live in multi-cultural societies and one cannot be anywhere near as certain as Lilly was - assuming he invariably got it right.

Lilly would only have agreed with the modern interpretation of the Ascendant as how others see us in a literal sense and even then he'd say it was far too simple an approach. Of course psychological Astrologers would argue that it's much more than that.

Oh, no, Minderwiz

Oh, no, Minderwiz. You weren't supposed to chime in on that post. I was fishing to see just what the list-people in general thought "signs" were supposed to mean in terms of physical characteristics. I know you know. You know that I know. I don't know who else knows. I thought it would lead to a fun discussion and fumble-about. Dave

LOL Well you shouldn't post such cryptic comments

Just to put matters right then:

Who can give us a description of the physical characteristics of :

Aries
Gemini

How would you adjust for a multicultural society?

I am already lost,lol.. I was asking because my husband has a cancer sun and a cancer ascendant. What are cancers physical characteristics?

Cheers,

Danielle*****

Cancer

'Generally , a low and small stature, the upper parts of more bigness then the lower, a round visage, sickly pale and whitely complexion, the hair a sad brown, little eyes prone to have many children if a woman'

Now this would need to be amended even if it was a seventeenth century reading. The Ascendant sign is only one of six factors that go into the assessment and not necessarily the most important, if there are planets in the first house.

Please also bear in mind the qualifications above related to ethnicity.

Cancer sign & physical indications

The face tends to roundness or fullness but with a flatness as well in that the nose doesn't tend to be hawkish or pointed such that it protrudes at or more than is considered normal for ones ethnicity. Coloration is tends to be pale, the hair tends to be not full or thick but gives the impression of being thin and close to the head. Overall skin-hair-eye coloration tends to be a bit bland but makeup and exposure to the elements can change that. The physical body is typically soft, fluid or soft or "cushiony". Size and proportions in this modern age can be affected by weight, growth, exercise and diet so that the former statements of slightness of body with a bit more heavyness above the waist may not be evident.

Of course, ones personality also affects how other perceive the physical "you." While Cancer-people are deemed to be reticent and quiet, once you are part of the family and friend-circle the response levels of the person are on a full working level -- expressed as sympathetic, nurturing, smiling, hard working about the home to make it comfortable with a sense of the past and older furniture/decoration/decor or family inherited pieces. All of these and other activities and efforts give the Cancer-person a sense of reliability and comfort that they project toward others.

However, I still don't use "signs" much in my work. This may be borne out by any comment of list-members who say that their Cancer-traits don't seem to match up with what I said. When I first started studying with Jeff Mayo of the London Faculty of Astrological Studies I used these definitions with great authority and certainty until I realized I was "wrong" more than I was "right" in stating such things. It became apparent in a matter of months that the books of that era couldn't be relied on, that there was much more to all of this in this increasingly modern and diverse world.

How might a person of African descent fit with this description, or an Asian person? Could an American or European astrologer adapt their description? Why back a horse that has only a 10% chance of winning the race? If it doesn't work almost all of the time, don't use it. Dave

I can only say that most often Scorpios are described as people with stable structure even a bit heavy at times, regardless the Ascendant but absolutely all Scorpios I know, me included, are more on the skinny side. Or at least they were skinny before they started overeating systematically which made them plump but it wasn't their natural condition. It's true about their fixed sight though.
I know many people Taurus, including an ex-boyfriend and my husband but they don't fit the description above... Interesting, they both have thin lips... Hm.