The Cary-Yale Visconti

kwaw

Ross G Caldwell said:
Why create all of this labyrinthine speculation?

Ross

I agree it is silly to reject the simple and obvious in favour of complex speculations, and the most simple and obvious explanation for the Filippo Visconti coins is that the cards were painted during his reign [now that we know such coins did in fact exist during his reign]. And the patently obvious and simple explanation for the Visconti and Pavia arms of the Love card of course is that they allude to the relationship between the Pavian artist [it is clear from his artwork he has a keener eye for the male than the female], possibly Belboa de Pavia, and Filippo; rumours of whose marriage being 'unconsummated' obviously based on what his peers knew about his sexual preferences...

Some of us just can't help ourselves :p

Kwaw
 

Ross G Caldwell

kwaw said:
I agree it is silly to reject the simple and obvious in favour of complex speculations, and the most simple and obvious explanation for the Filippo Visconti coins is that the cards were painted during his reign [now that we know such coins did in fact exist during his reign]. And the patently obvious and simple explanation for the Visconti and Pavia arms of the Love card of course is that they allude to the relationship between the Pavian artist [it is clear from his artwork he has a keener eye for the male than the female], possibly Belboa de Pavia, and Filippo; rumours of whose marriage being 'unconsummated' obviously based on what his peers knew about his sexual preferences...

Some of us just can't help ourselves :p

Kwaw

It's good to see you're reading up on Filippo Maria Visconti ;)

Just be careful, since so much comes from post-Visconti era and particularly pro-Republican (i.e. Florentine, Venetian) sources. These were particularly hostile to the dynastic despotisms represented by people like the Visconti.

Whatever FMV's sexual proclivities, given that he was overweight and lame, I imagine he ended up watching more than participating. I prefer to think about his intellectual pursuits, when speculating.

Maria of Savoy's reputation for piety must have also contributed to the rumors about the marriage being unconsummated. IIRC, the editors of the Zanichelli Vita (the annotated version of Muratori's edition of Decembrio's Vita of Filippo Maria Visconti) discuss the rumor and point to only one occasion where it is noted that it *might* have been consummated. What can we say about the story that he was going in to see her for the first time after the wedding, and while on the path heard a dog barking, which made him turn back, never to attempt to consummate it again?
 

Huck

.. white cross on red field on the baldachin of the Lovers in Cary-Yale ...

This heraldic design was not only used by Savoy, but many others, for instance by the city of Fermo, reigned by Sforza in October 1441, when he married Bianca Maria Visconti. From other documentary evidence (use of the word "trionfi" in context of playing cards, first noted February 1442) 1441 as date for the Cary-Yale is much more logically than 1428 (too early).

http://www.fermo.net/
Heraldic device of Fermo upper left corner


.. female knights in the Cary-Yale ...

As far I know, Jeanne d'Arc as impressive and famous female knight appeared 1429, after 1428.
The artist of the Cary-Yale could reflect Jeanne d'Arc in 1441, but not in 1428. Other famous female knights before 1428 ... ??? ... I don't know
 

Huck

kwaw said:

Interesting, especially cause ...

"In the Low Countries, at the initiative of Catherine Baw in 1441, and 10 years later of Elizabeth, Mary and Isabella of the house of Hornes, orders were founded which were open exclusively to women of noble birth, who received the French title of chevalière or the Latin title of equitissa. In his Glossarium (s.v. militissa), Du Cange notes that still in his day (17th c.), the female canons of the canonical monastery of St. Gertrude in Nivelles (Brabant), after a probation of 3 years, are made knights (militissae) at the altar, by a (male) knight called in for that purpose, who gives them the accolade with a sowrd and pronounces the usual words. "

Here appears the right year, 1441, and it is a French title used in England ... and Jeanne d'Arc is a French/English theme naturally, and 1441 is "short after Jeanne d'Arc". The state of the 100-years-war in 1441 should be peaceful, I think, Charles d'Orleans released in 1440 and near to this time Rene d'Anjou's daughter married to England, isn't it? So it's naturally to make noble gestures just then.

The other notes at the page seem to be too far off the mark, European theme of 1441 is the new stability of the French kingdom, especially since Rene d'Anjou still is in the possession of Naples and demonstrates French culture in Italy then.

Well, it tells, as everything else tells: Cary-Yale is from 1441, not 1428

**** .. still have problems to identify Catherine Baw ... likely Burgundian court?
 

Ross G Caldwell

Huck said:
Well, it tells, as everything else tells: Cary-Yale is from 1441, not 1428

**** .. still have problems to identify Catherine Baw ... likely Burgundian court?

I like this, but not much time tonight.

For Baw try Bau.

I don't think anybody seriously thinks 1428 anymore.
 

kwaw

Huck said:
Interesting, especially cause ...


**** .. still have problems to identify Catherine Baw ... likely Burgundian court?

Another site gives book reference:

"...women were admitted to the Military Order of Santiago as early as 1175. The Order of the glorious St. Mary, founded by Loderigo d'Andalò, a nobleman of Bologna, and approved by Alexander IV in 1261 was the first religious Order of Knighthood to grant the rank of militissa to women. This Order was suppressed by Sixtus V in 1558.

At the initiative of Catharine Baw in 1441, and ten years later of Elizabeth, Mary and Isabella of the House of Hornes, Orders were founded which were open exclusively to women of noble birth, who received the French title of chevalière (lady knight) or the Latin title equitissa."
Cardinale, Hyginus Eugene. Orders of Knighthood: Awards and the Holy See. Van Duren: Gerrards Cross, England. 1983. (p. 173-174)

There seems in fact to be little information available:
"The story of Joan of Arc is well documented and well known, but there are also other stories about women who are less known and less documented. These women come close to being legends from the lack of information recorded about them. In 1441, at the initiative of Catherine Baw in the low countries , orders which were open to noblewomen only who then received the French title of chevaliëre or the Latin title of equitissa. The same was done ten years later by Elizabeth, Mary, and Isabella of the house of Hornes. There is little information on the orders of the Hornes (MacNiall)."
Kwaw
 

Huck

As far I get it, the family of Hornes is from Belgia ... so 1441 this should be Burgund.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Maximillian_von_Horn_of_Hornes

I remember dark to have read the name Baw in the biography of Charles the Bold.

The Feast of Pheasants 1454 (which might or should mean "10 years after 1441" in the presented texts) was called the greatest event of its kind ... likely greater than the contemporary Trionfi festivities in Italy, which developed around this time. The center of interest at this event were clearly "knightly matters" and the idea was to collect energies for a crusade against the Osmans for the just fallen Constantinople (1453). Likely it was the "right time" for the Hornes sisters and their "female knights" ideas.

http://trionfi.com/0/t/21/

Burgund had founded the Order of Golden Vlies in 1430 and a follow-up in 1441 by a female has some internal logic ... generally knight orders were not an Italian idea, but appeared much more often in France, Germany and Burgund.

http://trionfi.com/0/p/24/

But still it might be of interest to know some details about Catherine Baw .... and the political situation of 1441. France and England had negotiated then a peace and it was opportunity to value the honor of Jeanne d'Arc, which seems to have been difficult immediately after her death and execution, especially since the church seems to have had some responsibility in the matter ... one couldn't calculate then, that France and Charles VII. restored themselves with some glory then.

Charles of Orleans was released in 1440 and Burgund played a central role in this development after 25 years .... Catherine Baw's activity should have an actual concrete and personal relationship to this event.

We know, that Filippo Visconti had immediately contact to Charles of Burgund and that he did send him a Boethius manuscript ... written by a prisoner once long ago in Pavia (Filippo's "home-city"). The content of the text: Fortune and virtues, isn't it?
And the Cary-Yale likely had a Wheel of Fortune (cause the Breara had one) and more or less had definitely the full seven virtues.

This tells Wikipedia to Jeanne d'Arc:

"The renewed French confidence outlasted her own brief career. She refused to leave the field when she was wounded during an attempt to recapture Paris that autumn. Hampered by court intrigues, she led only minor companies from then onward and fell prisoner at a skirmish near Compiègne the following spring. A politically motivated trial convicted her of heresy. The English regent John of Lancaster, 1st Duke of Bedford had her burnt at the stake in Rouen. She had been the heroine of her country at the age of seventeen and died at just nineteen. Some twenty-four years later Pope Callixtus III reopened the case and a new finding overturned the original conviction."

"twenty-four years later" should be 1455 and near to the feast of pheasants and likely near to the activities of the Horne's sisters. "Hampered by court intrigues" should mean, that she was not immediately recognized as the great spirit even in France, to which she was developed with the time. Likely Christine Baws activity shows the begin of Jeanne d'Arcs restoration, which finally turned in a political acceptance by the church ... which was unavoidable, after France had won the 100-years-war in 1453.

We know, that Filippo Visconti was very interested in Jeanne d'Arc in 1429 (letter of the poet-diplomat Cartier) and that Filippo possibly was influenced by Cartier's poem ("the cruel beauty" in 1424), when he ordered the Michelino deck (likely 1424/25), which has as a theme another cruel beauty (Daphne).

Well ... and we know, that the actual interest in early Trionfi cards was "for the young girls, when they married". Bianca Maria married October 1441. Naturally it was of interest to show the young bride "modern female developments". So "female knights" and "female virtues".

Sic .... but should be of interest to know Catherine Baw really, at least with some more details.

###

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08409c.htm

gives details of he case Jeanne d'Arc.

"Her attitude was always fearless, and, upon 1 March, Joan boldly announced that "within seven years' space the English would have to forfeit a bigger prize than Orléans." In point of fact Paris was lost to Henry VI on 12 November, 1437 -- six years and eight months afterwards."

Burgund did play itself a "bad role" in the year 1431. Bur after Jeanne d'Arc's prophesy was "proven" in 1437 and political reality did overcome earlier positions ... it seems, it was time to form a new pseudo-reality with a "good Jeanne d'Arc" ... so 1441 Christine Baw and her female knights.
 

kwaw

There were already at the period established orders that accepted women. Nonetheless, as you say the reference to Catherine Baw establishing an order in 1441 may perhaps reflect a general renewal in the treatment of women in literature and art following the re-evaluation of the status of Joan 'Arc.

However, the symmetrical presentation of gender is already in this time a well-established and old treatment in Italian literature and art, in the cycles of famous men and women, heroes and heroines, examples from literature being Boccaccio's On famous Men and Woman. Also for example the matching of the nine worthy men with nine worthy women, as for example in the c.15th c. Triomphe des Neuf Preux. Another interesting example is that of the allegorical poem by the Piedmontese noblemen and humanist Marquis Tommaso III of Saluzzo le chevalier errant, or Caverllersco c.1400 (written between 1394 and 1396 and altered between 1403 and 1405 according to one online source), which treats of both nine worthy men and nine worthy women. The nine knights and dames of which were later painted [between 1418-1430] with their arms in a series of frescoes in the Sala del Barone at the Castello della Manta. Contrasted with them on the opposite wall is a fresco of the fountain of youth, of interest perhaps in relation to the use of the fountain as a texture on the clothes of some of the figures in the courts and trumps of the Cary-Yale. It it that they are clothed in the fountain of youth, their fame triumphing over death?

There is also a fresco of Christ, so perhaps in the famous men and women, the fountain of youth and the figure of Christ in this fresco cycle are treated the allegorical theme of the triumph over death through the triumph of fame and the triumph of eternity.

Kwaw
 

Huck

Thanks for the info about the 9 heroes / 9 heroines. I didn't kow, that they were already so early.

Well, there might have been female knight orders before ... but 200 years difference to the Trionfi time makes them totally uninteresting. One has to understand, that 200 years are simply 200 years and are a long time. And likely Filippo Visconti never even did hear about these early ideas - if the builded orders didn't persist till his lifetime (which I would doubt for the moment). Even the 40 years from the mentioned poem are long ... alright, they were painted 1420.

But the poem was in French language, survived "only" in 3 manuscripts and do we have information, if the Visconti library had it? Well, the motif reappeared later, but in France mainly and later in German humanism. In Florence it was imitated ca. 1450 by another group of 9 heroes.

Still I would believe, that it was not common and that the Jeanne d'Arc - story was the relevant source for a card deck from 1441.