Illustration of 10 Swords in Thoth

jenessa

I've nothing to add to this discussion, tho I want you all to know that I am following this thread with interest.

REGARDS/jenessa
 

Thoughtful

Me to anything l can glean is a bonus, am anxious to move on with the Thoth but my DuQuette is two weeks overdue. Is the Universe telling me something :confused:
 

La'al quiet fella

From snuffin's book

'the hilts in chesed and geburah are tau crosses, symbols of Saturn. The hilts in chokmah and binah are hourglasses, symbols of time and thus also of Saturn. the hilt of kether is a set of scales, a symbol of libra, which is exalted in Saturn. this implies that the most destructive elements of Saturn are at work here: limitation, depression, sterility, ageing and death.

The hilts in hod and Netzach, with their four pronged guards, show the same saturnine influence as the tau crosses above them, with an emphasis on limitation and restriction.

the hilt in yesod has the sigil of the sun at its centre, and the hilt of Malkuth shows a pentagram (symbol of man) and the crescent Luna. Consciousness has been forced into the shadowy realms of the unconscious, and the unconscious impulses have come to the surface.'
 

Barleywine

'the hilts in chesed and geburah are tau crosses, symbols of Saturn. The hilts in chokmah and binah are hourglasses, symbols of time and thus also of Saturn. the hilt of kether is a set of scales, a symbol of libra, which is exalted in Saturn. this implies that the most destructive elements of Saturn are at work here: limitation, depression, sterility, ageing and death.

The hilts in hod and Netzach, with their four pronged guards, show the same saturnine influence as the tau crosses above them, with an emphasis on limitation and restriction.

the hilt in yesod has the sigil of the sun at its centre, and the hilt of Malkuth shows a pentagram (symbol of man) and the crescent Luna. Consciousness has been forced into the shadowy realms of the unconscious, and the unconscious impulses have come to the surface.'

Perfect! That's one I haven't read yet. Excellent enabling. Interesting that Crowley didn't bring this up in the BoT; it doesn't shed much light on the Sun in Gemini attribution, though.
 

Samweiss

'the hilts in chesed and geburah are tau crosses, symbols of Saturn. The hilts in chokmah and binah are hourglasses, symbols of time and thus also of Saturn. the hilt of kether is a set of scales, a symbol of libra, which is exalted in Saturn. this implies that the most destructive elements of Saturn are at work here: limitation, depression, sterility, ageing and death.

The hilts in hod and Netzach, with their four pronged guards, show the same saturnine influence as the tau crosses above them, with an emphasis on limitation and restriction.

the hilt in yesod has the sigil of the sun at its centre, and the hilt of Malkuth shows a pentagram (symbol of man) and the crescent Luna. Consciousness has been forced into the shadowy realms of the unconscious, and the unconscious impulses have come to the surface.'

Interesting take on the card.

Perfect! That's one I haven't read yet. Excellent enabling. Interesting that Crowley didn't bring this up in the BoT; it doesn't shed much light on the Sun in Gemini attribution, though.

This made me think and whip out my copy of "36 Faces" by Austin Coppock. Here's an interesting quote:

Austin Coppock said:
It is important to understand the precise nature of the death that which occurs here properly, for it is not the self-sacrifice of Jesus, nor the cognate immolation and rebirth of Phoenix. The third decan of Gemini sees Castor fall, Cain slay Abel and Set slay Horus. It is the climax of a story of polarity. The death which occurs here reduces a warring pair back to a stable unity.
It is thus fitting that in the descending order method of allotting the planets to the decans that it is the Sun, the lord of light, who is said to preside over this decan, while in the triplicity method, it is Saturn, the master of darkness who has lordship. The powers of light and dark are both present, and in contention.

Then he explains how in original Egyptian conception of time, year started in Sun's entry into Cancer, and that would make this third decan of Gemini the last part of the year, the end before new beginning. This part reminds me of Crowley's rather optimistic view on the card in BoT.
 

Barleywine

Then he explains how in original Egyptian conception of time, year started in Sun's entry into Cancer, and that would make this third decan of Gemini the last part of the year, the end before new beginning. This part reminds me of Crowley's rather optimistic view on the card in BoT.

Looks to me like another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Any thoughts on how the "Queen of Cups" overlay on the third decan of Gemini modifies this? Thanks for moving this forward. Will have to see if 36 Faces is still available.
 

Samweiss

Looks to me like another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Any thoughts on how the "Queen of Cups" overlay on the third decan of Gemini modifies this? Thanks for moving this forward. Will have to see if 36 Faces is still available.

Hmm... I haven't given that much thought, really. But Coppock writes how people born in this decan (Sun in this Gemini III) usually have many interests and talents, and how they have some problems of making decisions and "being themselves". This kinda agrees with Crowley's view how Queen of Cups reflect their surrounding influences, so you may not really know the real person behind the surface appearances. Of course this reflectivity is because Queen is Water of Water, but still, I see some of that Gemini in Queen of Cups. Does this answer your question? :p

And I really recommend getting 36 Faces! There really isn't a lot of books about the decans, which is a shame. I got my copy from the author's website. I think that looking there is your best bet.
 

ravenest

They're pretty hard to see, even with a magnifying glass. Obviously, at the top (Kether) are scales, then what look like calipers at Chokmah and Binah. Greek crosses at Gedulah and Geburah (but I'm not sure about the rest of the iconography on them, unless it's purely solar), a heart - with it's obvious connotation - at Tiphareth, four-pointed stars at Netzach and Hod (apparently a Christian symbol connected to the Star of Bethlehem), something I can't decipher at Yesod (but it looks like it could be some kind of Persian or Arabian artifact) and a pentagram surmounting a recumbent crescent Moon at Malkuth. I have no clue about any of the symbolism as it relates to the 10 of Swords, but it seems to me that if it were anything other than decoration with a thin veneer of more general esoteric significance, there would be a different symbol at each sephira.

Thanks, (did you see my earlier thoughts on this ?) you have added some extra ideas. I am seeing the calipers as Masonic synmbols. Greek crosses ? - Intersting. I am seeing them as R+C symbols. I never thought about 'Star of Bethlahem. I was veering towards some elemental symbolism there. Yes, the Yesod one IS interesting.

I think there is something in the paired symbols and not having a different one for each position - like how 'opposing' sephiroth work together ?
 

ravenest

I also equated it as airy energy. In particular i thought it were wings. When you have a bumblebee which moves its wings really fast, they look similar to the doodles (with lots of fantasy) . At least to me. The court cards are also depicted with those "wings" on their back.
Hope this helps.

Certainly they appear like insect wings on the Knight. I have resisted this idea of wings before, but you make a good point about the pattern they make when going fast. :thumbsup:


{ I have also noticed this in a snakes vibrating tongue, it can move so fast, in varying directions that the whole thing becomes a blur and pulses and patterns move through it ... well, in a diamond python it does }
 

ravenest

'the hilts in chesed and geburah are tau crosses, symbols of Saturn. The hilts in chokmah and binah are hourglasses, symbols of time and thus also of Saturn. the hilt of kether is a set of scales, a symbol of libra, which is exalted in Saturn. this implies that the

The hilts in hod and Netzach, with their four pronged guards, show the same saturnine influence as the tau crosses above them, with an emphasis on limitation and restriction.

the hilt in yesod has the sigil of the sun at its centre, and the hilt of Malkuth shows a pentagram (symbol of man) and the crescent Luna. Consciousness has been forced into the shadowy realms of the unconscious, and the unconscious impulses have come to the surface.'

Thats pretty cool !

Ahhh ... I see, little hourglasses within the 'calipers' ... I suppose, here, the calipers represent ' that which draws the boundary .

So time and 'field of operation' , within the Jupiter / Saturn polarity (also known as the 'gateway' or 'valve' in some types of astrology - between the inner and outer planets ) .

I am supposing the 4 crosses and 'prongs' relating to limitation and restriction is the limitation and restriction of the elemental world. It seems unusual to have a Sun symbol in yesod ... I wonder why not a full moon ? Which would be reflected in malkuth, as stated ?

With this; " most destructive elements of Saturn are at work here: limitation, depression, sterility, ageing and death. " It is certainly something Crowley seemed to focus on re Saturn , well, at least in his Rite of Saturn ... even to the extent of leaving a lot of other energies out ... and even the mythology.

The dead depressive sterility aging and death are very apparent in the rite, in things like 'The Eyes of Pharoah ' poem and Swinburne's 'Illicit' ..... it does turn to some type of grim humor about it at one stage , but still focusing on the sterility and ageing, in ' Colloque sentimental'

" In the ancient frozen solitary park
Two figures passed anon--now mark!
Their eyes are dead, their lips are soft and grey;
One scarce can hear the words they say.
In the ancient frozen solitary park
Two ghosts evoke the past--oh hark!

"Dost thou remember our old ecstasy?"

- "Why do you wish to remind me?"

"Does thy heart beat still at my name, and glow?
"Seest thou my soul in dreams, dear?"

- "No."

"Ah! the fair days of joyaunce and of gree
"When our mouths kissed, ah kissed!"

- "Maybe!"

"How blue the sky was, as our hope was clear!"

- "Hope has gone down to Hell's nadir."

So in the foolish alleys they conferred,
And only midnight overheard. "