Re: It's definitely no accident
the hermit said:
Whenever this card shows up, I think of illusionary rewards and always wonder what it is that the querent wants or thinks they want. I think of the old saw "better be careful what you ask for, you just might get it" and often say so out loud. The universe has always seemed to me to have a somewhat... peculiar sense of humor. It is often manifested (from my small point of view) in giving us what we think we want rather than what we need.
Wow. Good call, Hermit. By the way, I was sent this by Lupo and thought I'd post my answer here as the "reply" won't let me send this long a post back. Also it's a very good point to share. Hope you don't mind Lupo--
lupo138 wrote on 08-08-2002 22:17:
With regard to fame and the skull, the following thought might be of interest for you: The ancient Romans believed that a person´s soul would be "alive" as long as it was remembered. So fame after death was pretty important and for many of them a main goal. Fame during a lifetime was not that important. Remember the person that was put near every victorious warlord, who was granted a triumph in Rome. The person had always to say: "Remember, you are just a human" to prevent the warlord from becomin a megalomaniac.
There are two points made here, and though you mix them, they are not one in the same:
1) The allure of fame after death--which I have no problem seeing as an allure. Absolutely people have and still do see fame after death as desirable, and often as far more important than fame in life. The Romans were hardly exclusive in that belief.
2) The reminder that fame, in life, is fleeting--which is the man whispering to the General--the Rennissance carried on this practice with "momento Mori" jewelry and art.
These are two different things. If the General wants fame AFTER DEATH and is lured by this, lusts after it, then, as any marytr will tell you, he should have died in battle rather than returning to be in that victory parade. As he is in the victory parade, he is now REMINDED that this fame is fleeting, illusory, not as good as fame after death. Afterall, if he was dead and his fame living on after, he'd need no reminder
Which does the cup signify? I can buy #2--that it's a LURE to men wanting victory, but once they've got it in hand that ghostly skull appears, whispering them that they're "only human!" and such fame is all ILLUSION. What I DON'T buy is that it could be #1--that it symbolizes the allure of fame after death.
Put it another way, if this image--the skull-cup with the wreath in it--was really intended to mean the allure of "Fame after death", then it is poorly indicated. You don't create something as creepy and chilling as that eerie, ghostly skull unless you want to KILL the positive. A person will reach for that laurel wreath, no question. But they won't reach for that skull cup unless they've a maryter complex. Which, alas, we know far too many people have. But in most of my readings, I'd say that the person I'm reading for would rather reach for those laurels in hope of a victory parade. Yes, they want a big funeral, too, but they want the parade first.
My belief, if they saw that skull on the cup, they'd reject the cup--the skull is too scary, it does not, as you suggest, indicate that "fame after death...pretty important and...a main goal." Besides, how does such a belief work with the card which is about a person going after ILLUSIONS, not something real?
In short, if your point is that the cup reminds the person who grabs for that wreath that they're only human, that victory parades are all illusion, then I'm in total agreement with you. But if your point is that the cup could be the allure of "fame after Death" then no, I still don't buy it. Just IMHO, there.