Influence of Chinese Cards on Tarot

Abrac

In his book A Gnostic Book of Saints, pages 8 & 9, Robert Place mentions an early Chinese deck that has allegorical illustrations on one suit. He says they depict senes "from 'The Story of the River Banks,' a Chinese legend about the heroic exploits of the emperor's emissary on a journey to the mountain of the Taoists in the center of the world. It's a hero's journey that includes a fight with a devilish dragon before the final reward is achieved. It's easy to see in this ancient Chinese deck a relationship with the Tarot, which also has a suit of coins and a suit depicting an allegorical story."

After some searching I've found that this type of deck was not uncommon in ancient China. Andy's Playing Cards mentions a couple of them, see Money-Suited Patterns (Gun Pai) and The Turfan Card.

I also found a Website that seems to support Place's reference. Tradgames.org, see Chinese Money Cards (illustrated).

The big mystery seems to be how tarot cards just appear without any real clues to their origin. We know playing cards originated in the East and migrated westward. It seems to me that a Chinese deck with an allegorical suit is huge. Why hasn't this been talked about more?
 

The crowned one

I think you are talking late Sung dynasty. This is the big tie in to the Mongols and Mamluks. I feel it goes back earlier then that.
 

Abrac

I believe the deck Place is talking about is the one Andy calls Chuan Pai (Zhuan Pai), literally, "river cards." He says it's a variant pattern of the Sichuan Domino Cards.

Andy also says the personages portrayed are from a novel called The Water Margin. That sounds a lot like Place's Story of the River Banks. Anyone happen to know if they're actually the same novel. I Binged them but couldn't find anything, for now at least. Oh well, time for some shuteye anyway. :laugh:

Edit: Changed Kwan Pai to Zhuan Pai.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Abrac said:
I believe the deck Place is talking about is the one Andy calls Chuan Pai (Kwan Pai), literally, "river cards." He says it's a variant pattern of the Sichuan Domino Cards.

Andy also says the personages portrayed are from a novel called The Water Margin. That sounds a lot like Place's Story of the River Banks. Anyone happen to know if they're actually the same novel. I Binged them but couldn't find anything, for now at least. Oh well, time for some shuteye anyway. :laugh:

Hi Abrac,

Yes, they are the same novel.
Here is the wikipedia article on it -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin

I have written about the Turfan card(s) and mention the Water Margin here
http://ludustriumphorum.blogspot.com/2009/01/turfan-card.html

and here -
http://ludustriumphorum.blogspot.com/2009/03/update-on-turfan-card.html

Ross
 

Abrac

I guess a lot depends on when exactly The Water Margin was written. If the latter part of the 14th century, that wouldn't leave much time for a deck of cards, with allegories based on its stories, to migrate west and influence the tarot's creation. Not impossible, but it decreases the likelihood.
 

Abrac

I found an article by the researcher Stewart Culin, dated October 1924, that clearly links Place's Story of the River Banks to The Water Margin. The description he gives is clearly of The Water Margin and he calls it "The Story of the River's Banks." See starting below Plate 1. Culin Article

This way of translating it may have originated with Culin himself. It's certainly obscure. The story's been called a lot of different things but I've never seen "River's Banks" in any of the lists.

I found one source that says: " Versions of portions of the novel existed in poem form nearly 200 years before the accepted first publication date of the novel." If this is the case, it would make the idea that these cards had an influence on the West a more realistic one. :)