So you'd like to know the history of tarot

mac22

I would give it a poor rating ......AND explain WHY I gave it a poor rating... just a thought....

Mac22
 

Yygdrasilian

Answer me these questions three...

There is still the question, however, of just what it is the Templars did dig up, if anything.
As I recall, there was supposedly 9 knights in the original charter that spent something like 4 years digging a tunnel to an area beneath where they believed Solomon’s Temple had been located. Whatever it is they actually found, they invested a good deal of personal time and energy looking for it. Is it really that far-fetched they could have at least found some scrolls pertaining to what we now call the Kabballah?

I agree, no one should make claims that whatever it is they found is now part of the historical record as, obviously, no one recorded it. Or, if they did, no one's picked up on it yet (Or have they?).
One could make a case for the Grail legends / Arthurian cycle being a Templar translation of such a hypothetical document. Seems there’s a precedent for this type of scholarly speculation; and it starts with a capital Q.

Personally, I think they found the Ark of the Covenant. But you can call me crazy.

Oh, yeah . . . what's your favorite color?
 

Ross G Caldwell

Yygdrasilian said:
There is still the question, however, of just what it is the Templars did dig up, if anything. As I recall, there was supposedly 9 knights in the original charter that spent something like 4 years digging a tunnel to an area beneath where they believed Solomon’s Temple had been located. Whatever it is they actually found, they invested a good deal of personal time and energy looking for it.

I'd go with "if anything." It is prudent to take what Baigent et al. say with a large bag of salt, especially when it's speculation. The suggestion that the Templars "discovered" the Stables of Solomon, and were actively "excavating" under Temple Mount, is on pages 88-89 of the American edition. There is simply no reason to take either of these ideas seriously.

There were 9 Knights in the original charter, that's true.

Is it really that far-fetched they could have at least found some scrolls pertaining to what we now call the Kabballah?

Yes, it's far-fetched. What makes you even entertain the idea?

In any case, Kabbalah as we know it began in Jewish centers in the Languedoc and Catalonia over a century later. The Sefer Yetzirah is admittedly an ancient text, older than Kabbalah.

I agree, no one should make claims that whatever it is they found is now part of the historical record as, obviously, no one recorded it. Or, if they did, no one's picked up on it yet (Or have they?).
One could make a case for the Grail legends / Arthurian cycle being a Templar translation of such a hypothetical document. Seems there’s a precedent for this type of scholarly speculation; and it starts with a capital Q.

Personally, I think they found the Ark of the Covenant. But you can call me crazy.

Okay, Crazy ;) I personally prefer the legend that it is in Ethiopia.

But you can take your pick -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant

The truth is probably that it was carried off by the Babylonians in the 6th century b.c.e. and the gold melted down. In any case, it's certainly lost.

Oh, yeah . . . what's your favorite color?

Plaid. But I look good in any color of the rainbow.

Merry Christmas!

Ross
 

Yygdrasilian

Holy Hand Grenade

Ross G Caldwell said:
Yes, it's far-fetched. What makes you even entertain the idea?
My Education Took A sTRange Occult turN

a website citing a book describing a text whose origins are obscure said:
“The following text came from the 1906 Public Domain Jewish Encyclopedia. This entry thus needs updating by people familiar with the subject.”

“According to modern historians, the origin of the text is unknown, and hotly debated. Some scholars emphasize its context among various Medieval kabbalistic texts arising after the 10th century CE, while other scholars emphasize the earlier traditions apparently referring to it and its earlier textual features. Some of the core ideas in the book seem to have a Babylonian origin. The idea of the creative power of the various sounds is possibly Egyptian.”

“The Sefer Yetzirah describes the universe as being created through Ten Numbers ('Sefirot,' the origin for the Sefirot of later Kabbalah), Three Mother Letters, Seven Double Letters and Twelve Elemental Letters and that God created the universe through these four structures. These structures correspond to the astrological symbols in the sky, the planets, human physical functions, the parts of the human body.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_Yetzirah

10 numbers
3 + 7 + 12 = 22 letters
Hmmmmmmm....
Granted, there are other places a Knight Templar might have acquired such a document than digging for buried treasure.
Yet, it is still plausible that the 1st Temple priests came up with a contingency plan for protecting the Ark, especially after the Assyrian conquest.
With the Babylonians knocking at Jerusalem’s gates such a plan would have been enacted, leaving the most holy relic of the Hebrew people buried beneath Solomon’s Temple - until the Templars came-a-diggin.’ {{{Occult History Theorem ] This supposition also assumes the Ark contained a Sepher which the Templars then translated into their own initiatory tradition.

But to answer your question: I entertain the idea, in part, because the medieval Grail legends provided me invaluable "Keys" to solving Crowley’s Tarot.
Here’s another reason: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=110049

Mele Kalikimaka
 

Bernice

VERY interesting this discussion re. the Templars.

I'm just reading a book about them (christmas present). The book says that the initial nine spent 6 years 'closeted' and possibly digging around. Although it's very odd because the reason for them being there was to be out & about protecting travelling pilgims.

Bee
 

gregory

Teheuti said:
I received a private email from someone saying that I'm behaving badly by presenting this (on another list) and "making facts God." That I'm showing a repressed rage that makes people very uncomfortable and that I shouldn't make accusations.

Have I really been this out of line in bringing it to the attention of the tarot community?
OOOH yes. (I get e-mails like that sometimes.....}))

I reported it as inappropriate.... What the heck; why not ?
 

gregory

mac22 said:
I would give it a poor rating ......AND explain WHY I gave it a poor rating... just a thought....

Mac22
How do you get to rate it ????? Ooh - wicked idea has just surfaced.....

ETA - to find it - go to listmania and THEN the tab comes up.....
 

firemaiden

This sounds like a familiar crackpot... a person who becomes highly abusive when confronted and will keep inventing new aliases to compliment and support herself, and to attack others. No Mary, you are not out of line. Don't let this crackpot get to you.
 

gregory

Do we know who sent that e-mail - was it Wagner or just a fan of hers (if such there be ?)
 

frelkins

Never apologize for telling the truth, Mary, as long as it's done politely. You are rarely rude, in my experience, so I don't see that you have any issues here besides dealing with the usual internet crazies. ;)