Yygdrasilian's theory

Yygdrasilian

Preposterous!

Greg Stanton said:
You've taken the Thoth, altered it, and projected your own ideas about the Mayan calendar onto it, then announced "hey, look at the puzzle I've solved." You couldn't "unlock the key" without changing the "lock", by your own admission. Doesn't this tell you that you are off the mark?

You haven't established any real connection between the Mayan calendar and the Thoth tarot. Did Crowley ever mention the Mayan calendar in his writings, or even express awareness of it? Or is this an "occult" connection that you have arbitrarily chosen to explore?

Why all the fuss about the Mayan calendar anyway? Why are the Mayans so special? They're all dead, their civilization is gone, yet you are projecting onto them special powers and giving them an authority over some great cosmic event. Please explain.

How exactly have I altered the Thoth and projected the Mayan calendar upon it?

All I’ve done is take the constellations, which are not of my invention, to show how the Caduceus points to the winter solstice at 2012, and bisects the ecliptic across the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. In and of itself this might be a coincidence except for the fact that these constellations also establish the astrological settings present at the zero year, Dec.25th of our calendar system - a necessary prerequisite to having a year count up to 2012 at all. Furthermore, the fact that the Egyptian Caduceus and the Mayan Kukulkan are both feathered serpents and that the Mayans also attributed an importance to this same 2012 date would strongly indicate an intentional design by someone, somewhere, at some date. I’m no statistician, but I expect the odds of all those factors being a product of random chance is highly improbable.

Crowley was in Mexico around the time the calendar was being deciphered, so it is feasible he was aware of the 2012 date even if he never makes mention of it in any of his writings. As I noted earlier, this may all be evidence of an occult conspiracy to capitalize on 2012 hysteria and be a pretty good prank by “the wickedest man on earth.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall having yet made any statements as to what this might mean for the future. I have, however, pointed out that this would all be consistent with either a lost Gnostic teaching or an ancient prophecy concerning the Egyptian Sun God, Horus.

I’ve not presented this to start my own cult or troll this forum.

As the implications of this enigma fly in the face of the current ruling paradigm regarding the origins of Tarot, it should come as no surprise that many will simply try to shout it down rather than examine the constellations for themselves. There is precedent for this sort of behavior within the history of ideas. Since the whole Caduceus-Jesus-2012-Mayan connection presents a rather controversial enigma, I expect the shouting will get a lot louder and come from more than just the historians of Tarot. This may give you some indication as to why I have chosen, for the time being, to remain anonymous.

Apples Anyone?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=108025
 

Yygdrasilian

Who Made Who?

Teheuti said:
I'd like some clarification. You all keep referring to this being Crowley's code - yet the correspondences mentioned are not Crowley's but those found in the cipher manuscript on which the Golden Dawn was based. The cipher manuscript was most likely written by Kenneth Mackenzie (the evidence is strong). Is there anything in the work of Kenneth Mackenzie that supports Yygdrasilian's theory? Or have I missed something in the theory that's in Crowley but not in either the cipher manuscript or the GD set of correspondences?
Who came up with the cipher, and who invented the constellations are very good questions.
Concerning the cipher, if we're talking about a clandestine tradition, then its earliest known commitment to paper would not necessarily be its origin. With regard to the constellations, I expect you are in a better position to answer that question as, and correct me if I am wrong, you wrote a book on the subject.
Teheuti said:
And, personally, I think that almost anything can be "proved" by manipulating numbers to find messages.
Should we then all give up on mathematics, physics, engineering and a host of other disciplines that manipulate numbers to find applicable messages in nature?
 

Yygdrasilian

The Next Step

Rosanne said:
This site below gives a complete run down of all the theories about 2012
http://www.experiencefestival.com/mayan_calendar
Am I then the first and only person to point out this connection to Tarot?
I guess they'll have to add this thread to their list.

Rosanne said:
ps Sorry for the long post- but this keeps cropping up all over the place and I would like it finally dealt with.
Despite attempts to be “finally dealt with” in a cursory manner, there is no substitute for sitting down with the constellations and working with this system for oneself. The depth and breadth of the work simply cannot be condensed into a single forum post. That is why, since joining this forum, I have been weaving a kind of road map into Aeclectic’s threads. I can point someone where to go, but they still have to make the journey.

My sense of the players in this forum is such that we can’t really have a meaningful conversation until this occurs. I do not expect the majority to take this step, at least not initially, as the current paradigms are rather entrenched. I am perfectly willing to answer informed questions on this subject, but will not be goaded into writing a “Cipher for Dummies.” In order to be able to discuss this subject, one requires a context for any such conversation to occur.
 

Greg Stanton

Yygdrasilian said:
How exactly have I altered the Thoth and projected the Mayan calendar upon it?
The following quote from you demonstrates that your cipher assumes flaws in Crowley's original scheme which require "correction" in order to make your theory fit:
Yygdrasilian said:
You'll need Crowley's deck as he presents a mostly unscrambled version of the codex. The flaws he left in place set the story in motion when, having deduced the proper sequence of constellations, you correct them.

Yygdrasilian said:
All I’ve done is take the constellations, which are not of my invention, to show how the Caduceus points to the winter solstice at 2012, and bisects the ecliptic across the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. In and of itself this might be a coincidence except for the fact that these constellations also establish the astrological settings present at the zero year, Dec.25th of our calendar system - a necessary prerequisite to having a year count up to 2012 at all. Furthermore, the fact that the Egyptian Caduceus and the Mayan Kukulkan are both feathered serpents and that the Mayans also attributed an importance to this same 2012 date would strongly indicate an intentional design by someone, somewhere, at some date. I’m no statistician, but I expect the odds of all those factors being a product of random chance is highly improbable.
Interesting indeed. But the connection to the Thoth tarot is tenuous at best, in my mind at least.

Yygdrasilian said:
Crowley was in Mexico around the time the calendar was being deciphered, so it is feasible he was aware of the 2012 date even if he never makes mention of it in any of his writings. As I noted earlier, this may all be evidence of an occult conspiracy to capitalize on 2012 hysteria and be a pretty good prank by “the wickedest man on earth.”
Except that the Mayan calendar was deciphered between 1880 and 1894 by Ernst Forstemann, in Dresden. How could Crowley being in Mexico around that time show awareness of something that was happening on the other side of the globe? I would think that if he was aware of it, and believed that the Mayan calendar was important in some way, that he would have mentioned it in his writings.

Thanks for answering my questions.
 

Yygdrasilian

What is She doing with that Ox Goad?

Greg Stanton said:
Thanks for answering my questions.
You are welcome.

Regarding the corrections, if we make an Adjustment to an intentionally placed flaw within a structured set of symbols we may then put those symbols into motion. For instance, by switching the Alpha & the Omega, the Serpent (Teth) winds through story and the Tree - as in the Caduceus.

This Adjustment does other things too.
 

Greg Stanton

Yygdrasilian said:
You are welcome.

Regarding the corrections, if we make an Adjustment to an intentionally placed flaw within a structured set of symbols we may then put those symbols into motion. For instance, by switching the Alpha & the Omega, the Serpent (Teth) winds through story and the Tree - as in the Caduceus.

This Adjustment does other things too.
But how do we know a flaw is intentional? My thought would be that it is not a "flaw" at all. If the Thoth tarot contained a cipher, it would be clear and direct; it would require no adjustment.

During the inquisition, it was necessary to keep secrets. Expressing a belief that was not in line with Church teachings could mean death. While this is still true for some parts of the world, it not longer applies to the Western world today -- and it certainly did not apply during Crowley's time. There was no reason for him to hide or conceal anything, and certainly not by introducing intentional "flaws" within the Thoth tarot. Besides, the Thoth is largely in line with the Golden Dawn tarot, and if this cipher theory is true it would apply to that deck as well -- meaning that the creator of that deck should be credited with the mystery you propose, not Crowley. I still have difficulty accepting your theory as plausable, but it IS interesting.
 

Rosanne

Yygdrasilian said:
Am I then the first and only person to point out this connection to Tarot?
I guess they'll have to add this thread to their list.
Guess so.



I can point someone where to go, but they still have to make the journey.
I sat with your constellations and worked out the map- you have not commented on that. I came to a different date than you also. I have heard comments like this before about leaders and directions to take for a journey.
I do not hold to eletist views of who knows best about things like this.

My sense of the players in this forum is such that we can’t really have a meaningful conversation until this occurs. I do not expect the majority to take this step, at least not initially, as the current paradigms are rather entrenched. I am perfectly willing to answer informed questions on this subject, but will not be goaded into writing a “Cipher for Dummies.” In order to be able to discuss this subject, one requires a context for any such conversation to occur.
Was not goading you- suggesting only. I am very glad I have a different view to you of the members here and meaningful conversations. It is you who wish to discuss this- you bought it up in a particularly cryptic way. You scattered your link throughout different threads- but still did not tell what it was all about- except that it was a created constellation glyps or patterns that Crowley may have incorporated into the deck. So...whats the answer if he did..what do you think is going to happen on either the 21st or the 25th December 2012? I think a new Mayan age will occur, the 14th in the cycle.
That's it! If it is disaster I will be gone before you datewise- so you will not be able to say "I told you so" My country sees the first light of a date day.

Since the whole Caduceus-Jesus-2012-Mayan connection presents a rather controversial enigma, I expect the shouting will get a lot louder and come from more than just the historians of Tarot. This may give you some indication as to why I have chosen, for the time being, to remain anonymous.
You do not want to be seen as a what?.......you fill in the title.


~Rosanne
 

The crowned one

Yygdrasilian, interesting theories. Thanks for clarifying them for me.
 

Yygdrasilian

The Grand Wazoo

Rosanne said:
I sat with your constellations and worked out the map- you have not commented on that. I came to a different date than you also. I have heard comments like this before about leaders and directions to take for a journey.
I do not hold to eletist views of who knows best about things like this.
I said you might be getting warmer; but, overall, I get the impression you are too quick to assume that you've got it all figured out.

I made reference earlier to the Lewis Carroll poem, Jabberwocky, as it presents specific problems in translation that are analogous to those posed by this work. I did not mean this as an insult to your intelligence, merely as playful trick on anyone who might think there is any one way of approaching the arcanum.

It matters very little what you might think of me personally.

Rosanne said:
Was not goading you- suggesting only. I am very glad I have a different view to you of the members here and meaningful conversations. It is you who wish to discuss this- you bought it up in a particularly cryptic way. You scattered your link throughout different threads- but still did not tell what it was all about- except that it was a created constellation glyps or patterns that Crowley may have incorporated into the deck. So...whats the answer if he did..what do you think is going to happen on either the 21st or the 25th December 2012? I think a new Mayan age will occur, the 14th in the cycle.
That's it! If it is disaster I will be gone before you datewise- so you will not be able to say "I told you so" My country sees the first light of a date day.
I think the outcome has much to do with one's intentions. As with anything.

If I have been reluctant to reveal too much it is because the process is as important as the outcome.
My advice is to go back to the constellations and spend a few months working out its riddles.