Minor Arcana Correspondences

beanu

I'll offer my system here, without any attempt at historical justification.
All I can say is that it seems to match the RWS images for the pip cards,
maps to astrology, and seems to maybe correspond to the decans, although whose versions I don't know.

The suits match the elements, which leads to the signs, as normal:-
Wands = Fire - Aries, Leo, Sagi
Swords = Air - Libra, Aquarius, Gemini
Cups = Water - Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces
Pentacles = Earth - Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo.

Forget about the aces - they just refer to the elements.
That leaves 9 cards in each of 4 suits, consisting of 3 cardinalities (cardinal, fixed, mutable) by three decans (or at least, three cards for each sign)

The sneaky bit seems to be that you have to work from the 10's back to the twos.

10=Cardinal
9 =Fixed
8 =Mutable
7 =Cardinal
6 =Fixed
5 =Mutable
4 =Cardinal
3 =Fixed
2 =Mutable

( I won't try to assign to decans - haven't worked out which way they run yet).

So, Libra = Air, Sword, and 10, 7 and 4
4 of swords = Crusades - the chapel left at home awaiting the dead body of the knight, while he is off crusading. Librans are prone to being "crusaders" (I am one)
7 of swords - deceipt - Librans can be liars, cheats and thieves if they become dissilusioned.
10 of swords - backstabbing. Librans can be political animals, weilding the despicable tools of politics like knives in the back.

I'd one Libra because its me.
Here are a couple of fairly strong correspondences, to support the theory.

8 of Wands = Sagi - a flight of arrows, from the sagittarian archer

3 of swords = Aquarius - dispassionate. The swords of mind cut the heart of the emotions

4 of cups = Cancer - suspicion prevents the acceptance of a gift.
etc.

Personally, I think the pip cards were probably just playing cards.
Is it true that Waite was the first to design scenes for the minors?
So, we can assign what we like for reading purposes.
I just think that this scheme matches well with Waits images, and may be what he based his design on.
 

Bernice

Personally, I think the pip cards were probably just playing cards.

Is it true that Waite was the first to design scenes for the minors?
1) Yes. Derived from the Mamluk cards.

2)Waite was not the first to design illustrated pips.

Beanu you surprise me with these questions. You're in the History section, why don't you read the threads here ?

Bee :)
 

beanu

The purpose of History is to provide factual information in the support of the development of theories. I don't DO history, I USE it.
I am the Raison d'être for a Tarot history section.
What would be the value of a Tarot history section if everyone spent all their time arguing of which villa two people met at, 500 years ago.

And I do read some of it, not all of it. There's too much to read all of.
Now that I know there are others, I will go searching.
But to search for something that may not exist can be a very timeconsuming exercise.
Besides, I'm not really that interested in the minors. just enough to derive a consistent approach for my own reading, which I was happy to share.
It was a throwaway line.
 

Bernice

...But to search for something that may not exist can be a very timeconsuming exercise.
Besides, I'm not really that interested in the minors. just enough to derive a consistent approach for my own reading, which I was happy to share.
It was a throwaway line.
Ahem...this thread is entitled, "Minor Arcana Correspondences".

Bee :)
 

ihcoyc

I'll also offer my system here, which is idiosyncratic, based on elements and planets and elemental symbolism. I use it to expand on the RWS system I grew up with, largely because I am an air sign person (Gemini) and as such inclined to be somewhat less negative about the Swords than others are.

Suits:

Batons: Fire
Virtue: Strength (XI)
Fields: Work, physical activity, health
Class: Merchants and entrepreneurs
Objective/subjective continuum: Fully objective.

(I use limited reversals. Majors, courts, and aces are all fully reversible. With others, it depends on whether the card looks significantly different from one end to the other. Batons are the least reversible of the suits.)

Coins: Earth
Virtue: Prudence (The Hermit, IX)
Fields: Money, goods, and material wealth
Class: Farmers and bankers
Objective/subjective continuum: Mixed; odds likelier to be subjective than evens

Cups: Water
Virtue: Temperance (XIV)
Fields: The emotions and matters of the heart
Class: Clergy / priesthood
Objective/subjective continuum: Fully subjective. All Cups are obviously reversible.

Swords: Air
Virtue: Justice (VIII)
Fields: The mind; the law; ethics
Class: Warriors / nobility
Objective/subjective continuum: Mixed; odds likelier to be subjective than evens. In the odds, usually either the hilt is in your grasp or the point is aimed at you.

Within this framework, the numbers are given meanings and 3-10 are assigned to the planets:

1: The source. A bolt from the blue. A new beginning

2. Balance, standoff, conflict between two equals.

3. Assigned to Saturn. Maturity, wisdom; decrepitude.

4. Assigned to Jupiter. Solidity, plenty, establishment, firm foundation. Can be boring.

5. Assigned to Mars. Conflict. Judgment. A fault that must be corrected. A hard decision that cannot be avoided.

6. Assigned to the Sun. Serenity, light, warmth, familiar paths, shadows dispelled.

7. Assigned to Venus. The attractive side of .... / The superficially attractive side of ....

8. Assigned to Mercury. Time to put your ideas into practice.

9. Assigned to the Moon. An ideal version of .... / The waxing and waning of .... / Dreams of .....

10. Assigned to the Earth. You've been through journey of that suit, and it's time to move on. ..... has been taken care of; what next?
 

kwaw

01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
10 09 08 07 06 05 04 03 02 01
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
10 09 08 07 06 05 04 03 02 01
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22
HIGH
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♣ ♣ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♠ ♠ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦
LOW
22x10-1.jpg
 

kwaw

kwaw said:

So for example reading the table ~

horizontal:

So 8 swords, 3 cups, 8 batons 3 coins correspond to Saturn among the cosmological sphere, the sphere of binah on the tree of life:

Vertical:

8 Swords - Popesse
3 Cups - Empress
8 Batons - Death
3 Coins - Temperance

Vertical correspondence will change according to placement of fool, justice & strength and preferred ordering of suits; adapt according to personal preferences.
 

Scion

Kwaw, I love you. :thumbsup:
 

Bernice

I know it's RWS style Kwaw... but, thank you for re-posting this. It's such a complete system, at a glance!

Bee :)
 

kwaw

Bernice said:
I know it's RWS style Kwaw...

The Marseille ordering is at least 16th century...

The ranking of pip cards in ascending and descending arcs is found in descriptions of card games from at least early 15th century, and the rule is also to be found in earliest descriptions of the game of tarot.

Numerical ordering of the planets in ascending and descending arcs is ancient.

Concepts of the souls movement in ascending and descending arcs is common to Christian, Jewish and Islamic mystical theology.

Planet to sephiroth attributions are traditional, those tabulated above are attested too from at least the 13th century.