the fool vs trickster

roppo

From the Tarot history viewpoint, I suppose two books are important for the trickster information.

"The marvellous adventures and rare conceits of master Tyll Owlglass"(1860) by Kenneth R.H. Mackenzie.

"The Annancy Stories"(1899) by Pamela Colman Smith.

The former can be read at http://www.archive.org/details/marvellousadven00eulegoog
For the latter you can buy recent inexpensive paperback.

Mackenzie is a key figure in the Golden Dawn Founding (confounding you might say) Saga. Pamela Colman Smith needs no explanation :D
 

awookie

thank you for the links.I now have different avenues to look at. I will enjoy exploring them further:)
 

Sophie

Animal tricksters

In addition to Coyote, whom Chronata mentioned, there are quite a few animal tricksters in myth and popular culture. Anansi is a spider, Fudugazi is a tortoise - in fact, Africa is chock-full of animal trickster tales. In China you have the Monkey King, a trickster god. There are some fabulous tales about him - here are a few.

We have fool/trickster tales in Europe - in the stories of Reynard, for instance, where the Fox is the trickster.

Europe also gave us many faery tricksters - Puck/ Robin Goodfellow being the most famous in the English-speaking world. Shakespeare wrote him into his Midsummer Night's Dream, but he existed long before that. The faery trickster can be mischievous in a harmless or sinister way - another English (Cornish) faery trickster, the Spriggan, is nowhere near as charming as Robin Goodfellow.

A great article on tricksters.


Tricksters/Fools are often thought of as male, but there are some female tricksters too - Baubo being a famous (infamous!) example, with her overtly sexual ribbing.


I agree with saturninebird that the archetype is spread across the Fool and the Magician in the Tarot.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Fudugazi said:
The faery trickster can be mischievous in a harmless or sinister way - another English (Cornish) faery trickster, the Spriggan, is nowhere near as charming as Robin Goodfellow.

Bugs Bunny is pretty ambivalent. He's just plain cruel sometimes.

Tricksters like that aren't appreciated much these days. We want our good guys good and our bad guys bad.
 

Sophie

Ross G Caldwell said:
Bugs Bunny is pretty ambivalent. He's just plain cruel sometimes.

Tricksters like that aren't appreciated much these days. We want our good guys good and our bad guys bad.
True enough. I see the Tarot Fool and Magician as just such ambivalent fellows - with the Fool rather more dangerous, and the Magician more obvious. They both have (un)worthy antecedents.

BTW - I once played Bugs Bunny in a school play. I had the best of times!!! Playing tricksters is very liberating.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Fudugazi said:
True enough. I see the Tarot Fool and Magician as just such ambivalent fellows - with the Fool rather more dangerous, and the Magician more obvious. They both have (un)worthy antecedents.

BTW - I once played Bugs Bunny in a school play. I had the best of times!!! Playing tricksters is very liberating.

I once played the Easter Bunny in a Mall. That taught me a lot.

I couldn't say anything, with that massive bunny head on - everything is gesture, to get the kids - and the occasional adult - up for a photo.

Most of the time it's okay - but one time there was a toddler who was screaming in horror as his parents pushed him towards the strange silent figure - me - he ran and hid behind his dad's legs, they couldn't get him to move. He was weeping and howling - and I was doing all I could not to bust up laughing myself. It was a comical - you had to be there I guess. The sheer horror on that child's face, what he must have felt, fascination combined with terror (staring at me while he was howling "Nooo! Nooooooooooooooooo!")... amazing.
 

Sophie

Ross G Caldwell said:
The sheer horror on that child's face, what he must have felt, fascination combined with terror (staring at me while he was howling "Nooo! Nooooooooooooooooo!")... amazing.
Now I know there's a bit of trickster in you, Ross - no other character could be so delighted to terrorise a child unwittingly with a giant bunny costume :laugh:- well, he's going to encounter the Trickster many times in his life, better start young!
 

tmgrl2

Along with the ones mentioned so far, the first one that came to mind for me was Raven...Raven and Coyote are the prominent Native American "tricksters."

Raven came right away, since the Raven appears in Stephen King's The Stand...Here, Raven is a version of "the Walking Man" who represents the darkside of the remaining population after the illness wipes out most of the people in the World.

So...you see Raven appearing here on wires, along the road as the people, those on their way to the "new earth," the good people...Raven is tracking them, and once the scenes shift away from Raven one can see him turn back into "the walking man." I liked this representation, since it goes along with what Fudugazi said about one walks "between worlds."

Between boundaries...I like this concept since it places The Fool anywhere within a reading, and must be read depending upon it's place and upon the whole context of the reading.


Also, if you want to read O'Neill's summary of The Fool /iconology, here is the link:

Scroll down for discussion of Fool as trickster

http://tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/fool

He talks about the Fool as doing harm through ignorance, too.

Then we have Poe's Raven who repeatedly said (quoth)

"Nevermore."

This one seems to have more of a sinister nature...than that of a trickster.

terri

P.S. I found this article particularly interesting:

http://www.mythandimage.com/fool.html

"We often only know the value of the fool's actions after the change is complete." This, a quote from this article.

So the Fool can bring change (winter from summer, e.g.) or destruction, but only through change, can there be new growth, whether it be a "trick" of fate, or a total destruction..but then, too, the Phoenix rises from the ashes.

Even Death as change, has redemptive qualities...so The Fool, as an action of change, whether through bumbling error, or deliberate destruction, brings about change.

terri
 

awookie

Lol Ross you had me laughing.

I've added links to my favourites and Captain Jack in the final link came up! Mr Depp plays the role of Trickster so well.
The Stand I remember Rob Lowe was in it that was a creepy series and mind bending.
Jesus as Magician/Trickster.
OT I had a weird dream last night relating to something called 'The Star Prophecy'. I dont recall anything other than the final words Star Prophecy.

I just looked further on the raven and found birth totems. Mine is The Raven. I like shiny things like tarot decks.

Thank you I have so much to read through and look at.