Pictures of men reading cards prior to 1960??

Cerulean

Etteilla

Etteilla at work from Cours theorique et pratique do livre du Thoth 1790 in A Wicked Pack of Cards (Decker/Dummett, copyright 1996) after page 148, plate 4. The image is also elsewhere online.

I will upload later if someone doesn't first...the illustration needs to be magnified so one sees it is cards he is reading.

Later: I tried to photograph the image from my Dummett and Decker 1996 and I found the same image online--but I was not able to magnify a readable image of the cards fanned out near where he is writing.

Here it is so if you find it elsewhere, perhaps you'll have better luck.
 

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kapoore

Men Playing cards miniature

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Men Playing cards" miniature. It supposedly dates from 1352 Italy and that is before most Tarot card historians say the cards were in Europe. Here is the web link:
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/results.asp?image=023973
Thanks, Kapoore
 

Rosanne

Hi Kapoore-The image is from the Italian Arthurian romance about King Meliadus, father of Tristan and shows several depictions of the Knights of the round table- a tournament-horse racing/jousts -the card game etc. The Book is apparently circa 1362 not 1352
Playing cards were thought to have reached Italy and Spain between 1360-1370 possibly from Egypt- the Mameluke contacts via Venice and Cadiz Pisa and Amalfi Coast. Sailors who were Burji (which means Tower) Mamelukes.
It was a Burgi Mameluk who was ruler of Venice. It was also at this time that lottery type cards were started in Venice/Florence in the 14th Century as chronicled by Marin Sanudu.

He wrote....
A new method of commerce, giving hostage to fortune: it began in a small way. First anyone who wished to adventure had to give 20 soldithen it grew to 3 lire, then to a ducat. And the prices (prizes) were carpets and other things; now there are money prizes, 200 ducats, and a piece of cloth of gold has been offered.

They were given illustrated cards- it seems somewhat like LeNormand with 'lucky illustrations' Like Monkeys/Kings/Coins etc
~Rosanne
 

kapoore

Hi,
I realize that most card historians put the arrival of cards into Europe at/around the 1370s--here you say the 1360s. I was wondering, though, how the museum got the dates wrong. I'm just assuming that the internet post reflects the museums data.

I have for a long time been suspect of some of these dates about European playing cards because it just seems so strange to me that during the Pax Mongolian thousands of Europeans visited the Mongolian court, and some went as far as China. They brought back the wonders of the far East including some version of the printing press, but no one (that is NO ONE) slipped a deck of cards into his saddlebags or knapsack. Then, there are reports that people did bring back cards called "sheet dice." And these dot style cards in the miniature don't look like the ornate Mamluk version of the cards. Also, the German style cards have some fantastic animals like unicorns, which I believe was Chinese in origin (not sure about that). The story goes that the Europeans did not bring back cards because they were superstitious about paper money. Again, I have a hard time believing that considering that they brought back the printing press. Oh well, I suppose the only solution to the problem is to contact the museum about the dates. But thanks for offering the knights of the round table version of the painting. It does look like King Arthurs Court with the round table...
 

Moonbow

Moderator Note

In order for this thread to stay with the topic of Pictures of men reading cards prior to 1960, we have split the discussion about the Mamluk/Venice connection into its own deserving thread:

The Mamluks and the Venetian connection

Thanks