Learning the RWS system when coming from the Thoth school

Nosgo

Hello ATers,

I've started learning Tarot nearly two years ago with the Thoth deck that was gifted to me by my mother. I felt incredibly attracted by this deck and started to learn as much as possible of it. I've bought the main books about it to study it seriously and I can now say that even if I'm not an expert of the Thoth (rather hard task for sure), I feel at least at home with it (I would say intermediate level).

To increase my tarot knowledge and try something different I've come to order the RWS centennial deck and the Benebell Wen book to go with it. I'm still discovering the deck and its subtilities but I'm having a hard time because of my "Thoth knowledge". Some meanings are quite the same, but some cards are (apparently) completely different and when I use the cards, I have to restrain myself going with my habitual meanings (no Qabbalah correspondence etc). Furthermore, the use of reversal is somewhat intimidating.

The fact that it is considered a beginner friendly deck add to my frustration of feeling a bit stupid. I know I won't learn the RWS system in a weak but I don't know, I'm having hard times.

Any advices or experience from peoples who were familiar with a system and decide de learn something different? How did it go for you? How did you handle the difficulties? Did you had to change your learning method? Can you pass on the use of reversal with the RWS like with the Thoth?
 

Abrac

One thing I've learned that might help is "forgetting." By that I mean forget everything you've learned about the Thoth, at least temporarily, while you're exploring the RWS. You might try wading through Waite's Pictorial Key to the Tarot. Some of it's heavy and hard to digest but I'd skip over that at first and find the parts on reading with the deck; it has some good stuff in that department. The deck is primarily meant to be read intuitively and doesn't involve a lot of correspondences and the like.
 

cbiz83

I'll second what Abrac is saying. Also, there are some 'hybrid' deck's out there. Venessa Decort's Sun and Moon Tarot is predominantly RWS, but includes a fair amount of Thoth symbolism too.

Also, yes, you can pass on reversals in RWS. Some people read with them, some people don't. Initially I had a hard time reading with reversals. But, eventually I became more comfortable with it.
 

Richard

......It's primarily meant to be read intuitively and doesn't involve a lot of correspondences and the like.

Good luck trying to read cards like Trump 14 (Temperance) intuitively, since the imagery is overwhelmingly Qabalistic. However, the intuitive way of reading the RWS is accepted as "standard." As a sign on the wall of my dean's office said: "But we've always done it this way." For heaven's sake, don't let anyone rock the boat! :rolleyes:
 

mabcosmic

I have the exact opposite problem - I love the Thoth, but my RW knowledge gets in the way of understanding it. :)

In my own experience, the easiest way to learn the RW is to use numerology. For example take all the twos out of the deck and see what they have in common. When I do this, I see "Hesitation" as a main theme of the twos (plus, a need to be patient to make a balanced approach). With tens I see "Consequences" of where we put our energy. If we put our energy towards our relationships, we end up with happiness (Ten of cups). If we put our energy towards conflict, we end up with ruin (Ten of swords).

Your meanings may differ and that's okay!

The Pictorial Key to the Tarot is the book that is designed for the RW and can be read for free here:

http://sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/index.htm
 

mabcosmic

Good luck trying to read cards like Trump 14 (Temperance) intuitively, since the imagery is overwhelmingly Qabalistic. However, the intuitive way of reading the RWS is accepted as "standard." As a sign on the wall of my dean's office said: "But we've always done it this way." For heaven's sake, don't let anyone rock the boat! :rolleyes:

I personally see the Temperance card as a Cathar symbol. It occurs right after Death and shows a Higher Power recycling water (or the soul) into another container reflecting their belief in reincarnation. The card right after that is "The Devil" - a symbol of bondage to the material world, symbolizing rebirth.

I know several people on the Internet who would vehemently disagree, but hey, I don't mind rocking the boat. :joke:
 

Richard

Besides the Intuitive ways of reading RWS, there are the Whatever Floats One's Boat methods, all of which totally ignore the voluminous output of Waite regarding his esoteric interests, of which neither numerology nor Catharism were particularly prominent.

As regards Waite's views on using Tarot for fortune telling, in Pictorial Key to the Tarot, Part III Section 3, he has this to say regarding the divinatory use of the Major Arcana:

It will be seen that, except where there is an irresistible suggestion conveyed by the surface meaning, that which is extracted from the Trumps Major by the divinatory art is at once artificial and arbitrary, as it seems to me, in the highest degree. But of one order are the mysteries of light and of another are those of fantasy. The allocation of a fortune-telling aspect to these cards is the story of a prolonged impertinence.​

Of course, Waite's views on Tarot are neither here nor there, right? You buy the deck: You get to use it any way you wish.
 

mabcosmic

Besides the Intuitive ways of reading RWS, there are the Whatever Floats One's Boat methods, all of which totally ignore the voluminous output of Waite regarding his esoteric interests, of which neither numerology nor Catharism were particularly prominent.

You missed my point entirely. The symbolism of Temperance pre-dates Waite and is seen on the Marseilles. Waite did not design the symbolism of one chalice being poured into another.

Of course, Waite's views on Tarot are neither here nor there, right? You buy the deck: You get to use it any way you wish.

So if a reader using the Rider-Waite doesn't do it exactly by the book and exactly how Waite wanted then using the deck is pointless? Or that anyone who reads the Rider-Waite is not allowed to read up on the history of the Tarot or think about theories regarding it's origin and design?

That sounds like a very fundamentalist approach, which is neither helpful in learning how to read the cards or developing one's reading skills and intuition.
 

Abrac

mabcosmic, I agree the Temperance symbolism pre-dates Waite, but how does it relate to the Cathars? A source would be helpful.
 

Zephyros

To increase my tarot knowledge and try something different I've come to order the RWS centennial deck and the Benebell Wen book to go with it. I'm still discovering the deck and its subtilities but I'm having a hard time because of my "Thoth knowledge". Some meanings are quite the same, but some cards are (apparently) completely different and when I use the cards, I have to restrain myself going with my habitual meanings (no Qabbalah correspondence etc). Furthermore, the use of reversal is somewhat intimidating.


I think that after studying the Thoth, the RWS should be no problem. There really is no need to artificially forget anything since both decks come from the same root. While every deck's viewpoint is unique, the shared basis of both does shine through.

Aside from deck philosophies the biggest difference between both decks would seem to be in the way the ideas are presented. The Thoth has pips and conveys its meanings abstractly through these, shapes, colors, attributions and symbols. On the other hand, the RWS gives pictorial interpretations of the basic GD structure.

When I read with any RWS deck I use it much like the Thoth with Quabalah, astrology, etc. but go with the flow of the images which focus the abstract attributions to a more narrow range of meanings. So there's no problem, but as others have said, the RWS does have its own angle, and reading the PKT in its entirety is well worth the effort. Say special attention to the section entitled "The Doctrine Behind the Veil," in which Waite goes into the greater meanings of the cards.

In each deck some symbols are used that mean different things, including pre-imagery that pre-dates either deck. Such is the language of symbols and it is well worth the effort to work and finding out not what a symbol means generally but what it means in the specific context of a given deck.