The importance of numbers attached to cards

rcb30872

I have just recently asked about The Chariot, then I had replies like "7 this" "7 that" I don't mind admitting that I am a little bit confused with this. What exactly is the relevance/significance???

When I ask this, I don't mean just in association with 7, but all the numbers and their appropriate cards.

Bec
 

Rachey

The numbers thing confuses me too Bec. I'm sure you will get some helpful replies. Unlike mine LOL

R x
 

rcb30872

Rachey said:
Thanks for that, just going to have a look now, I wonder, did it help you???

Bec

PS I have looked at it, and it did help to some extent. I know now that the even numbers are associated with feminine influences, and that the odd numbers are associated with masculine influences which are to do with "doing/acting."
 

jmd

I am not exactly sure what was being asked in the opening post, so make this reply more out of one particular manner of reading the question in terms of numbering.

Many of us often use an Atout's (a Major Arcana's) usual numbering as a bit of a short-cut to writing the card's usual title. Hence, writing of the Chariot, I may instead use 'VII'.

This, for me at any case, calls to mind the whole card, rather than focus on what may otherwise be either only part of the imagery. For example, I would not usually only focus on the chariot itself when discussing the card, for what of the charioteer, or the horses, or the 'wand' the former holds, or the epaulettes, etc?

There are problems with this, of course, for not all decks either number or name the cards in the same manner.

Still, for myself at any rate, I tend to use the additive form of Roman as an abbreviation for 'standard' Marseille-style numbering.

When it then comes to also discussing numerological aspects of the card, I personally tend to principally apply geometrical aspects that may be considered, but do not usually 'reduce' a number such as XVIIII by first writing it in our common hindo-arabic form (19) and then adding the digits as though they were separate numbers (1+9 = 10 = 1+0 = 1).

Though there is much value in also working with such a method with regards to numerology generally, I personally prefer, when working with Tarot, to first and foremost focus on the image, its ordinal position (ie, what comes before and after), and its possible other relation to other cards within the deck (perhaps even suggested by pairings using the additive roman form of its number - again for example, XVIIII with VIIII).
 

rcb30872

Yes, I have to agree. But then when I did a thread on The Chariot, here
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=44721&page=1&pp=10
and then there was something said about that which I found rather confusing
kwaw said:
The number 7 is attributed to the Moon and to the Goddess Minerva [Agrippa 'Occult Philosophy' Vol. II, chap.XX]. Minerva, the Goddess of practical wisdom, sprang fully armed from the head of Zeus, ready to do battle. According to Plato Wisdom is the charioteer of the virtues, and he attributed it to the reasoning aspect of the tripartite soul, with the spirited and appetitive aspects of the soul providing the horse power, under her reigns [one of the titles of Minerva was 'the bridler', it was she it is said who broke in and bridled the winged horse Pegasus]. St. Aquinas, following St. Augustine, changed reason to will. You may note that the gender of the charioteer in the TdM is somewhat ambiguous, in some [dodal?] the figure is clearly breasted; in the early painted decks she is clearly a woman; and I would suggest in line with the symbolism of the number 7, represents the somewhat androgymous, manlike Goddess Minerva

I am not asking what the different numbers mean as such, even though it would nice to have some indication. What I am asking, why does there seem to be so emphasis/significance/importance placed on the numberings on the cards?

Bec
 

shaveling

rcb30872 said:
I am not asking what the different numbers mean as such, even though it would nice to have some indication. What I am asking, why does there seem to be so emphasis/significance/importance placed on the numberings on the cards?

Most of the time, I think this isn't so much a matter of emphasizing the number as it is of using the number (as jmd says) as a kind of short-cut. There a couple of reasons for doing this. One is that it is shorter, like saying FBI instead of saying "Federal Bureau of Investigation."

The other reason is that the same card may have different names in different decks. And in a forum like this where different people use different decks, the numbers provide a more widely shared way of indicating which card is being discussed. You may say "The Tower" and I may say "La Maison Dieu," but we both say "XVI."

There's a catch, what with some decks making Justice = VIII and Strength = XI, and other decks reversing those assignments. So people have to spell out which cards they mean in those cases. That is, unless they know they're all talking about the same deck. But otherwise the use of the numbers can be a convenience.

Sometimes people may be emphasizing the numerology involved, but I suspect these are the more common reasons for the habit.

-shaveling
 

rcb30872

Phew,

Thanks for that shaveling. Here I am thinking I know nothing about numerology, or at least very little. How can I be a good tarot card reader if I can't figure out the significance of the numbers??

That pretty much answers my question. Thanks again

Bec
 

Sulis

I often think of the number of the card when reading because I find numerology to be a useful divination tool.

Many people read just using the pictures, many people use keywords, others use numbers as well.
When I read, I tend to go on the picture, the elemental correspondence and the number of the card or the number of the major arcana card it relates too. It just gives you that little bit more depth, something else to go on.

I tend to use the Marseilles numbering even though the decks I use are usually RWS based - I find that Justice seems to make a lot more sense as 8 than it does as 11.

There are some very useful numerology threads over in the Divination forum.
Here's a link: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=11533

Love

Sulis xx
 

rcb30872

Thanks Sulis

I like the idea of using your own system for interpreting the cards. Meaning, that you use which is the most comfortable for you.

I am always open to new concepts though.

Thanks again

Bec