Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

The Fool and his Spoon

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Marseilles & Other Early Decks


 
mac22's Avatar
mac22  mac22 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Jan 2004
Location: ca usa
Posts: 2,280
mac22 
Citizen

mac22's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by RChMI
Le Mat is the beginning and end, and the end and beginnng of the journey. Le Mat is no vagabond, but a traveller who has experienced some of the finner and more urbane things in life. This is shown by the aspect of him carrying a "toilet spoon," in order to take care of Nature's Calls in a civilized manner... Serfs would wipe their arse with leaves or rags.
Do you have a source for this?

Mac22
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #31
jmd's Avatar
jmd  jmd is offline
fourhares
 
Join Date: 05 Aug 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,502
jmd 
fourhares

jmd's Avatar

Re: "Serfs would wipe their arse with leaves or rags"

and: "Do you have a source for this?"

trees and shrubs as a source for leaves
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #32
firemaiden's Avatar
firemaiden  firemaiden is offline
keeper of the toaster
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2002
Location: Poitiers, France
Posts: 10,828
firemaiden 
keeper of the toaster

firemaiden's Avatar

A source... well we could start with Rabelais ...

(hint: see Gargantua - Chapter 13)
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #33
mac22's Avatar
mac22  mac22 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Jan 2004
Location: ca usa
Posts: 2,280
mac22 
Citizen

mac22's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by firemaiden
A source... well we could start with Rabelais ...

(hint: see Gargantua - Chapter 13)
thx

mac22
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #34
catboxer's Avatar
catboxer  catboxer is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 23 Mar 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 374
catboxer 
Citizen

catboxer's Avatar

I was looking to update my picture of Bosch's "Prodigal Son" picture (the earlier link disappeared) when I ran across this very interesting article (http://www.fictionwise.com/knight/boschtwentytwo.html) by Damon Knight which shows both of Bosch's treatments of this theme.

I still think the round one is the greatest fool "card" I've ever seen.

Knight says it's a mistake to identify the painting with the Prodigal Son, that its real name is "The Wayfarer." That'll work.

But I still think of that figure who's looking one way and going the other as the Prodigal, whom the Book of Luke (KJV) says "tooke his iourney into a farre countrey, and there wasted his substance with riotous living."

He really is a fool, having blown all his money on wine and women, and in pretty desperate straits -- skinny, hungry, not a friend to be found, even the dog hurries him along. He's got nothing, and is so desperate "he would faine haue filled his belly with the huskes that the swine did eate." His spoon, prominently at the ready, symbolizes his hunger.

The swine are (barely) visible in front of the run-down tavern where this fool met his ruin. It's partly unroofed; there's a sleazy-looking couple making out in the doorway and a guy pissing in the shadows of the east wall. Hell of a glamorous place to lose your money.

Best of all, Damon Knight makes the (I think) obvious Wayfarer -- Fool card connection. Scroll down the bottom of the page where he says "There is a strong resemblance between The Vagabond and The Fool in the Waite-Smith Tarot deck, and an even stronger one in the Marseille deck (late fifteenth century), but this resemblance cannot be traced back any further; the Visconti-Sforza decks do not have it. It seems less likely that Bosch was inspired by an ur-Tarot, now lost, than that later versions of the Fool were based on Bosch's painting. The number of the Fool card, 0, also suggests that it was a late addition.

"The Tarot suits of wands, cups, swords, and coins can all be found in Bosch's paintings, and there are certain resemblances in The Tower, Judgment, and a few other cards, but there is no good evidence that Bosch's work arose from these."

I'm not sure about Knight's conjecture. Bosch was born in 1450, the approximate year of the Visconti-Sforza, and died in 1516, still very early in the history of tarot. Still, the Netherlands was an import-export economy, whose cities got all manner of exotic goods from around the world.

Or maybe it's the case that the homeless, destitute, and possibly unhinged Vagabond was an archetypical figure in medieval and renaissance literature and lore.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #35
Tiro DvD's Avatar
Tiro DvD  Tiro DvD is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 21 Jul 2005
Location: IL, USA
Posts: 102
Tiro DvD 
Citizen

Tiro DvD's Avatar

For those interested here is an example of folk tale who's title demonstrates the spoon and Devil association.

The Long Spoon @ Sacred-Texts.com
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #36
mac22's Avatar
mac22  mac22 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Jan 2004
Location: ca usa
Posts: 2,280
mac22 
Citizen

mac22's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macavity
And an animal forelimb is determinative for AE hieroglyphs meaning "offering" but...

The Catskins (sic) are an interesting symbolism, discussed by the Occultist and Cat enthusiast Fred Gettings. Aside from the Prodigal son / St.Luke theme, the picture may also symbolise initiation and abandonment of "animal" (feline) passions. Alternatively these may be part of the quest itself: For the feline mother Bast, for Isis, the Queen of Heaven etc. More down to earth, he notes the Dutch word "katsjager" as an (in this case unlikely?) woman-chaser!

Alternatively, it might be a "kattevel" (catskin) purse, "stroppen" (sl - stolen?) from a rich person. And the fool is, as in the Tarot, unaware of it's real value?

Macavity - Feeling the breeze?

P.S. Sorry to depart from the spoon, Diana.
And where did Fred Gettings say this about the cat skins?

Thanks.

Mac22
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #37
Erasmus  Erasmus is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 24 May 2017
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2
Erasmus 
Resident
Possible meanings of "Spoon"


Hi I'm new here

I'd just like to say that it's possible that the Spoon might be a reference to "Allegory of the long spoons" & the symbolism could be compared to that of the feathers in the Visconti Sforza & the idea of being "touched" by God i.e. "Heavenly" or "Of Heaven"

Thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allego...he_long_spoons
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #38


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.