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Should I go for Noblet or something else?

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rygD  rygD is offline
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Question Should I go for Noblet or something else?


I am looking for a TdM deck, or something similar. I have looked at the more popular and available ones, and Noblet seems best for me regarding the imagery used. I am looking for something that has a lasting influence on culture that is plainly seen today, and also contains much of the symbolism that has become important since then. I am very open to suggestions.

Things I feel are important that I see in the Noblet images, but not in TdM II and some others I have looked at (though present in some), are:

0: It is more apparent to me what is going on with his backside, especially since his dangly parts are seen. The bell from his hat is obviouly on his hat, and there aren't any extras.

1: The dice.

6: Blindfolded cupid.

11: The lion looks calm.

12: Tongue and fingers.

13: Main figure facing left (see below).

15: The face on the belly, both lower figures seem obviously (to me) to be female.

16: The top of the head of the figure on the right has no hair, I prefer the look of the blocks lower on the tower.

17: Star shaped belly button.

18: Outward facing moon, colors on the crawfish.

19: Man and woman (not children).

20: Cross-eyed trumpeter, color of skin of middle figure/child (seems more alive than if blue or white).

I feel facial expressions and the directions people are facing are significant, although the only one that greatly stands out to me is death facing left. This is also the only card I am unsure of with the Noblet deck, as it looks more like a "fresher" corpse (I see it as more of a zombie than a skeleton, but even that is somewhat valuable to me). I also feel the lack of body parts changes the feel, as it could be a scene of reaping some crops while leaving the humans at the edge of the field to continue growing. I guess, in a sense, that could be true even with the body parts, since the heads seem to always be upright, like they are coming from the ground. Another card with a difference that I may "miss out on" is faces on the shoulders of the charioteer. Also, it looks like there are only 3 creatures on the wheel, but there is something near the bottom where there is sometimes a 4th, most likely legs from the one on the right.

You probably need a bit of info about why I am looking for a TdM deck, and what I am really looking for. I don't do readings at present. I am not opposed to it, I just haven't been bitten by that particular bug. I own several modern decks. Recently I decided to pick up a Waite-Smith deck to look for the influence it had on my other decks, and in other art (pictures, movies, even music). I have never found the Waite-Smith pictures (and colors!) appealing, and I was only interested in it as a reference. I went with the pocket version of the Smith-Waite Centennial due to the clearness of the lines, that the pictures were not cut down, and it is possibly the closest to the original pictures that we have. Once I had it in my hands my feelings toward the Waite-Smith deck changed, and I found that the pictures are very expressive. I looked at some TdM cards to compare to these since I had been mildly interested in them due to Jodorowsky (although I am skipping over his deck for now). I could see a pretty direct lineage and transmission of ideas from the older cards to the newer ones. Now I feel like I need more references, but I want to limit myself to only one more deck for now. Who knows, I might start reading if I spend enough time with them. Additionally, I like the handy size of the Noblet deck (yep, that's a pun).

Should I go with the Noblet deck? Are there other readily available and affordable decks with such rich imagery and symbolism that are important historically? Feel free to offer suggestions and criticism related to what I feel is significant. I am pretty sure I missed many other great decks since I am new to the older ones, and I may be reading too much into some things, and not enough into others.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rygD View Post
......Should I go with the Noblet deck?......
excellent choice
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rygD  rygD is offline
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I guess I have another question. Is there a place to find analysis of TdM symbolism? I suppose this subforum is a good place to start, and I have been trying to work my way through the threads. I like being able to get a variety of opinions and interpretations, but it isn't as straightforward as a book or article. Anyone have a generic TdM book they recommend?
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For symbolism, I highly recommend Jean-Michel David's book (listed in the books section here).

Also this site. Robert O'Neil has a book, too, but it's out of print and very expensive, so I've not had a chance to read it.

The Noblet is a great choice, especially if you don't care about it not being a TdM II, which seems to be the form that gets written about more in works other than David and some newer texts.
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Where will you get your noblet? I look in the web and the only version I found was a redrawing. I am looking for an exact reproduction, just as Yves Le Marseillais does (but in Yves' online shop there is no Noblet)
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Should I go for Noblet or something else?


The Hermits Lamp is selling one.

I own the Flornoy restoration, and it is superb. I won't be getting the repro just yet, as I can't justify that.

Oh, btw I also just notice that the Open Library has ONeill's book available to borrow as a PDF. Sold!

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Yves Le Marseillais  Yves Le Marseillais is offline
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Noblet or not Noblet


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michellehihi View Post
Where will you get your noblet? I look in the web and the only version I found was a redrawing. I am looking for an exact reproduction, just as Yves Le Marseillais does (but in Yves' online shop there is no Noblet)
Bonsoir all,

Yes I don't sell Noblet reproductions but Patrick Coq has intention to do it in facsimile.
When is another problem...

Roxanne Flornoy is preparing 22 Majors handmade restoration.
Ask her directly for timetable.

On my side I prepare a restoration of Jean Pierre Payen 1713 (to be publish by October coming) who is a Tarot of Marseille Type I.
It may please you very probably.

Welcome here anyway and happy spreads !

Salutations from Marseille City,

Yves
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rygD  rygD is offline
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3ill.yazi, I haven't had a chance to look up that book yet, but that site is great. I have only had a chance to read a few articles and it really gives me a lot to consider and think about. I really appreciate those links. Maybe O'Neill's stuff should be stickied, if it isn't already, and I overlooked it. I will also head over to Open Library at some point.


Michellehihi, the deck at The Hermit's Lamp is the one I want to get. I like and own copies of other work by the guy that put it together. One thing that is supposedly a bit different about this one is that it includes "corrected" cards along with the facsimile reproductions of those same cards. Examples are fixing the magician's hand and wand, and correcting some of the titles and numbering, so you get them as they exist and as they may have been intended. If it is truly a limited run of 250 it might sell out before I can buy a copy, and I will have to consider the other options a bit more


Yves, I was considering Flornoy's 78 card deck (I don't think that one is handmade). I appreciate the heads up on who is planning on doing Noblet reproductions. If the other one sells out I will get in touch with Roxanne Flornoy. I considered some of yours, and was looking strongly at the Conver (which I understand you are working on) before deciding that I wanted a TdM I. I will take a look at the Payen. Thanks for all the info.

Edit: Now I really want some that are handmade. I wonder how much money I will end up sinking into this. Gotta catch 'em all!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rygD View Post
the deck at The Hermit's Lamp is the one I want to get. I like and own copies of other work by the guy that put it together. One thing that is supposedly a bit different about this one is that it includes "corrected" cards along with the facsimile reproductions of those same cards.
I'm confused about the Noblet we are talking about on the Hermit's Lamp site. Are we saying this is a version that has corrected cards, or another printing not by Flornoy? The only Noblet I see on the site is the Flornoy restoration. A related question is there is a 2014 printing (which is what is pictured in their description)--what difference is there between this and the original (2007?) printing of the Flornoy Noblet?

Either way I've lusted after this deck long enough and will be ordering it shortly, as I am in love with the graphical quality of the restoration. I don't need any more "antique" looking TdMs.
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This Noblet looks good, yet a bit darker than the original (why this choice ?) and the background cleaned with Photoshop (of course !). I have not seen the reconstructions and supplemental cards but as it is, it's far superior to Flornoy. Flornoy's option to restore ancient decks was maybe trendy at Paul Marteau's time but now we can appreciate these old tarots for what they are without feeling the need to "improve" them.
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